No oil to the valves- 2F HELP

[John Staton]

Ok, so I purchased an 84 FJ60. They had the engine rebuilt and it came with a large receipt from a Toyota dealer in Arizona. Actually runs great but I have it over at a buddies shop getting a desmog and he wanted to adjust the valves and fix the oil galley while I had it over there and he called and said it is bone dry up top and no oil is making it up to the valves. He thinks it could be one of two things and I gave him the green light to dig in....wondering what kind of feedback I could get from the forum here as I have gotten a lot of valuable feedback so far.....

 

[TexasBlue]

Bad oil pump is first guess. What kind of oil pressure..not from the dash gauge but a reading from mechanical gauge?

 

[RockDoc]

These engines don't send much oil up top, and the pathway goes through a drilled passage in the camshaft (i.e. the pathway is only aligned once or twice per rotation).

If it is indeed getting NO oil up top, I would suspect a head gasket put on flipped front to back blocking the transfer of oil to the head casting (there should be a tab of head gasket sticking out between the block and head at the back of the engine if in correct orientation) or the rocker assembly put together wrong so that the oil flow pathway is blocked there.

 

[RockDoc]

Not sure on this one, but if the cam bearings were changed, improper alignment of the one where oil is fed upward might be a potential flow blocker.

 

[gregnash]

Bad oil pump is first guess. What kind of oil pressure..not from the dash gauge but a reading from mechanical gauge?

Negative... first assumption after knowing that it was recently rebuilt is that the head gasket was installed backwards. This will block the passages that flow to the valves.

 

[pithicus]

Make sure the distributor is pushed all the way in. If not, you will have zero oil pressure.

 

[mwebfj60]

The oil passage to the top on a 2F opens right as the #6 intake valve closes. If the oil pump was bad, not likely at all, you would have known quickly.

 

[db3]

The head gasket might be installed backwards. Very easy to do. Shop that rebuild the engine in my 76 managed to reverse it and the upper end was bone dry.

 

[John Staton]

Yeah, the oil pressure has been fine. In fact, it has been driven about 1,000 miles since it was rebuilt...I have put on about half of those miles. I never noticed anything. This was not discovered until I took it in to do a desmog and my mechanic wanted to go an adjust the valves because he thought it sounded funny. His initial guess was that the gasket was installed backwards.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

Gasket has a tab that you’d see pinched between the head and Tstat house if it were bass ackwards. Rocker shaft could be installed front ways back. Rocker support column could be in wrong position- only one has the port. Cam bearing could be incorrectly clocked blocking flow to head. Dizzy might not be seated but that would be a whole engine not just head... any one of those would cause a pain. There isn’t much flow, but enough to make a mess when checking lash on a running machine. You should get some oil up there. If the head gasket is backwards, preemptively check the rocker assy stand and shaft, and hope that the cam bearings are right.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

The oil passage to the top on a 2F opens right as the #6 intake valve closes. If the oil pump was bad, not likely at all, you would have known quickly.

So if the head does come off, set it to tdc compression of number six slug first

And before putting the head back on, prime the galley and verify the cam bearings are right before wasting another head gasket, then prime it again after assembly of the top for grins and squirts.

 

[60Works]

Not sure on this one, but if the cam bearings were changed, improper alignment of the one where oil is fed upward might be a potential flow blocker.

Gotta think this cam bearing worst case scenario is the most likely. A flipped head gasket would present with overheating issues within 10-20 minutes. Failure to clock a bearing is more subtle and easier for a machine shop to miss.

Hope it's the HG but I doubt it.

 

[db3]

I now recall chasing an overheating issue when I discovered the head gasket had been installed backwards. The water ports in the head gasket are different sizes, with the smaller holes towards the front of the engine. Reversal reduces the flow at the rear where the sensor is located, resulting in overheating, as well as blocking the oil feed to the rockers. However, pointing a thermo gun at the discharge hose showed the correct 180 deg reading. This was a sure tip off the gasket was installed backwards.

 

[60Works]

Removing the rockers and cranking the engine would reveal if oil is making it to the head. Less invasive than removing the head. Pull the spark plugs first.

Can anyone think of a reason that would damage the engine? I'm just thinking of ways to diagnose the system, not following the manual or even past experience. So proceed with caution.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

I agree that would be the least invasive. Tho rather than crank motor, clock to tdc on six and prime with the drill for a visual...Head gasket being backwards is evident by eye. If it is not backwards, then yes, stay up top as long as Hope and logic let you.

 

[mwebfj60]

Best case scenario is a rocker assembly install error. I would set engine to where #6 intake valve just closes, then pull rocker assembly. The No 4 support has the oil hole. Verify the No 4 support has the oil hole (pg 3-14 2F FSM). If right, then pull distributor and spin pump with drill...that’s what I would do anyways.

Edit...

 

[TexasBlue]

Negative... first assumption after knowing that it was recently rebuilt is that the head gasket was installed backwards. This will block the passages that flow to the valves.

Appreciate the direction. . Learn something new almost every day here. Keep it up!

 

[60Works]

Pulling the distributor to get oil pressure comes with the potential of creating timing issues. Or worse, not getting the shaft fully engaged with the oil pump on reinstallation and ruining the engine.

It's important to have the camshaft spinning to see if oil is getting through the bearing. If you check for oil with the cam stationary and are even the slightest bit off in rotation, it could result in a false positive of the test.

 

[Spike Strip]

First check the correct rocker tower is in the right spot - There is one that is drilled for the oil circuit that flows into the rocker shaft. If that tower is mixed with the others, no oil to rockers.

It is possible to get the rocker shaft 180* out (not easy, but it happens) - there's a notch in the shaft so it slides over one of the rocker bolts.

And, as mentioned, the cam bearing can be misaligned.

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

Pulling the distributor to get oil pressure comes with the potential of creating timing issues. Or worse, not getting the shaft fully engaged with the oil pump on reinstallation and ruining the engine.

It's important to have the camshaft spinning to see if oil is getting through the bearing. If you check for oil with the cam stationary and are even the slightest bit off in rotation, it could result in a false positive of the test.

the way this oil galley is routed, you cannot get a false positive result; only a false negative result. agree that reseating dizzy comes with potential peril if not done properly or checked, but it is not that risky or hard. mark static positions and replace at clocking...again, zero way to get false positive by using drill with engine set to #6 tdc.