Newbie Hello - 22r Low Compression Blues

[85 4x4 22r]

I have a 85 4x4 with a 22r (carb) motor.

I am having a bit of an issue with a rough idle and low compression issues. A local mechanic charged me $200 to tell me what my ears & right foot already knew.. call me the idiot for taking it in for a diagnostic and an attempted valve adjustment. All I learned was #1 is pretty dead, #2 is low, #3 & #4 are marginal but ok... it will cost you $1800 to pull the head and have a valve job done. YIKES!!

So here I am. Time to learn what is causing this and share what I can about the joys of working on one of these trucks. Wish I could say this was a rock crawling monster toy truck, maybe one day in the future, but at the moment this is my daily driver.

Q: is it strange to be having these issues after a rebuilt motor was put in this truck at 214k?

• 259k miles on the truck at present.
• No Loss in coolant, Clean as Green Coolant can be.
• Does not appear to be leaking or burning oil.
• Temp runs about midway up but has never overheated

Q: If the head gasket is breached between the #1 and #2, I would be loosing coolant and have water in my oil correct?

Q: If its Rings.. Wouldn't I be Burning Oil?

Q: Burnt valve? Burnt Valve Seat? other valve issues?

Any points in the right direction are much appreciated. Many thanks in advance. Please forgive my newbie mechanic questions.. been a long time driver of these trucks but haven't had to work on them much. Normally it is old reliable. I have a 85 4x4 with a 22r (carb) motor. My name is Steve-O and I am a toyotaholic.

 

[cavemancaleb]

Test the compretion yourself first. You dont know for sure if it really doese have bad compretion, all you can go off of is what the tech told you and you have no other reason, other then its gutless, to believe you have bad compretion. It is wierd fo a motor with that low of miles to be have low compretion. So after you know for sure for sure that it has bad compretion, you can go from there. There are other tests to tell you what specifically is causing the compretion issues. I say again though, compretion isnt the only thing that can cause your motor to loose power. In awnser to all you Q'S, yes your right.

Also, if it is the head, you can get a new head for pretty cheap from someone online or at the local pick and pull and put it on yourself for less then $500.

 

[85 4x4 22r]

Compression Test Results - 4-15-09

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Ok So the Compression Test Results are in. #1 = 50, #2 = 45, #3 = 170, #4 = 185. There was no difference between Wet and Dry on #1 and #2

I remembered an observation I made the day I took the truck in for the diagnostic, I had the air cleaner cover off and as I was putting it back onto the truck I noticed grayish sludge around the spout on the valve cover where the hose connects the Air cleaner. Not thinking much of it I wiped it away and drove over to the mechanic. It wasnt much so I didnt think about it then.

I learned yesterday if I did have water mixing with my oil it would result in a gray build up under the oil filler cap (on my stepdad's cars anyways) or the highest point water can escape.

I kind of kicked myself this morning when I went to go out and work on it. Because it clicked.. That would be the highest point on the motor for water vapor to escape. Soo.. What I can tell you now is the compression is indeed jacked.. and I am loosing a little bit of water into the oil. From what I've been reading it looks like pulling the head and inspecting the gasket are in order.

Here is a pict of the plugs just in case you are wondering what they look like.

 

[Hilux]

1st off, welcome!


2nd, do you have a garage?

3rd, since it sounds like you need to get it going quick, I'd say look for a beater that runs. I'd find me a runner, swap it, then you can take your time rebuilding the one that came out.

If you had the space, the tools and the time I'd say pull'er and just have the block checked, and the head worked. I'd assemble the motor and put it in myself and save about a thou or two...my 2 cents

Look on your local Craigslist. I'd recommend the parts section as most people run the things they think aren't necessarily runners. I also see the best bargains there.


Look here for block and head ID and interchangeability.


...And, nothing lasts forever. Not even a Toyota. I'll bet if you could put a price on the service it's given you, you'd find there was A LOT in the budget to rehab the truck. Not that you implied anything, but I just despise people that get 100's of thousands of trouble free miles out a vehicle, then as soon as it acts up, fling poo at it.

 

[KLF]

Compression test results only tell you that there's a problem, but they don't tell you WHERE the problem is. I don't even waste my time with them anymore. Do a leakdown test, report back.

 

[85 4x4 22r]

Unfortunatly No Garage Space Available...

I do have driveway space that it can occupy while under repairs without blocking any of the other vehicles at the home front. Several cars belong to this household. I just happen to only own one of them. Unfortunately.. Due to the economy I'm currently unemployed and work is pretty hard to find at the moment. So my budget is pretty tight.

The up side is I have the time to work on the truck and I actually have not put many miles on it since December. (saving lots of gas money) The down side is naturally I have a very limited budget to work with for parts and additional specialty tools. However I do have gear heads in the family that have tools if needed.

So that leaves me with about 2 more months before I will be needing the car as a commuter again. Could be longer if the economy keeps going the way it is.

As for your comment about if I could put a price on the service that truck has given me.. priceless. I love that truck. This is the second one I've had. the first being an 84 SR5 4x4. I picked up this 85 in 2002, except for having to put a motor in it 2 years later, it has been pretty rock solid. (knew it needed a motor when I bought it) Never will throw poo at it just because it happens to do what all mechanical stuff does eventually... and that is break and need to be fixed.

Thanks for the welcome and I'll keep you updated as to how the repairs go. I'll be taking lots of pictures and I am sure I'll have lots of questions. I will be out of town next week so I don't plan on ripping it apart till after I get back on the 28th of the month. Any other words of wisdom before then are always appreciated.

 

[85 4x4 22r]

Thanks for th tip

Will be searching the forum to see if I can find info on what exactly a leakdown test is. Again I'm a newbie.. have mechanical skills and can put stuff together.. just not versed in all the procedures of touble shooting. I have the FSM, all 1025 pages, so I'm sure its in there too.

Thanks again, I'll report my progress.

 

[85 4x4 22r]

leak Down Test Guage Question

Ok, so I figured out that a leak down test is an actual piece of equipment. Sorry to sound so brainless. Never used one before so I wasn't sure if it was a process or an actual piece of equipment. Turns out.. its both...

I'm seeing kits that have 2 gauges and single gauges... Am also noticing pricing online to be somewhere around $65 to $100+ and up. So my Question is.. What testing kit do you recommend? Does it make a big difference between 2 gauges or just a single one? Does cost affect of the tool affect the quality of the test?

All responses welcome.
thanks in advance.

Steve-O

 

[KLF]

No need to apologize. Sometimes we teach, other times we learn. That's that this site is for.

This is the one I have:

Summit SUM-900010 - Summit® Dual Gauge Leakdown Testers

Works very well, I've used it quite a few times. I think it's very important to have the dual gauges, although I guess you could get away with just using the gauge on the compressor regulator as well.

Properly done, a leakdown test will tell you exactly where your engine is leaking. It confirms leaking head gaskets, worn rings, bad valves (intake or exhaust). A compression test can't do that.

 

[85 4x4 22r]

Many Thanks.

Great price and the instructions look pretty straight forward. Am really digging learning about all this stuff and seeing how many other folks just love these trucks. It's a nice change of pace from what I normally get... "That Truck is so old, Sell it for s**** and buy a car..." grrrrrrrr that makes me gag.

Thanks again for the help. Will post again when I have results.

PS

After looking a little at Harbor Freight I found a leak down tester for $24.99. Here is the link if anyone else happens to be looking for a leak down tester for cheap.
- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices

I'll order this one in a couple of days if I don't hear any negative feed back about it. If I do I'll go with the one that was recommended for $62

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

First I'd get a air nozzle with a rubber tip that you can stuff into the spark plug hole, and see where it's leaking...

A leak down tester will tell you how bad something is leaking... which can be good if you have a problem with rings or valves.... But if it's the gasket (as it apears...) then all you need to confirm is THAT it is the gasket leaking....

So turn the engine to top dead center on the number one, and fire a shot of compressed air in the spark plug hole... If it shoots out the number 2 plug hole... you'll have your answer...

 

[85 4x4 22r]

Many Thanks Again

hey free is always good here.. Thanks for the tip. I'll try that for sure before ordering anything. And yes I agree I am leaning towards a head gasket issue vs. valves or rings.

 

[KLF]

So turn the engine to top dead center on the number one, and fire a shot of compressed air in the spark plug hole... If it shoots out the number 2 plug hole... you'll have your answer...

I suppose the simple nozzle approach is fine if you're only looking for a leak but don't need to know how badly it's leaking. Prior to doing the test, MAKE SURE you take the cap off the radiator. If your HG has breached into a coolant passage and you leave the coolant system closed, you can blow something up as the components are not designed to take 100+ psi of air pressure. If the HG is leaking, then coolant will geyser out the radiator.

Take the intake pipe off too, so you can listen for air leakage past the valves. Same with the oil fill cap.

 

[85 4x4 22r]

Suggestion Taken

As far as doing a simple test to just see if the gasket is breached between one and two I think is a great idea. How ever I also see the value in a leak down tester and plan on having one.

I do not see any objections here to the $24.99 leak down tester form Harbor Freight so I plan on ordering that one tomorrow and should see it some time Monday or Tuesday. Will keep you posted how things turn out.

Thanks again for all the help.
Steve-O

 

[WristPin]

well im glad i could help.

 

[85 4x4 22r]

Timing Chain Question

Ok, determined the problem with the lack of compression. Turns out I have a couple of burnt exhaust valves in #1 and #2

Tare Down was documented and can be viewed here:
Steve-O's 22r Toyota Page
All tare down was done according to the FSM.


I opted to just replace the head with a new one from Japan Engine out of San Leandro CA. Nice folks and from what I can tell a reasonable price for a replacement head. The new Head Cost $240 + $10 for new studs (Intake and Exhaust) + 8.75% tax.

I have installed the new head as per the FSM and After using a torque wrench to tighten the head down I attached the Timing Chain Sprocket onto the cam, installed the fuel pump cam and distributor gear and set the valve lash. when the timing chain sprocket was installed it was already at TDC for #1. The mark I made on the chain was lined up with the marks on the sprocket. How ever I did not notice where the notch was on the main pulley assuming everything should not have moved while the head was off.

when I rotated the main crank so I could adjust the valve lash I noticed that the notch on the main pulley was not at the 0 mark on the crank case when the cam Timing Chain Sprocket says it is in TDC #1. the notch on the main pulley looks to be about 1 or 2 links of chain ahead of the Cam Timing Chain Sprocket.

My question or assumption would be these should both be lined up (main pulley at the 0 mark & Timing Chain Sprocket should be at TDC for #1)

When I disassembled the motor the FSM said to mark the chain.. and rest the gear along with the chain on the Chain dampers (plastic chain guides) while the head is off.

Is it possible that the chain could have slipped a link on the main crank during this procedure?

Here area couple of pictures to illustrate my concerns.

Any Suggestions or pointers are helpful.
Thanks in advance.

Steve-O

 

[cruiser88]

Compression test results only tell you that there's a problem, but they don't tell you WHERE the problem is. I don't even waste my time with them anymore. Do a leakdown test, report back.

 

[toy4xfun]

hey like i told crazy always replace your harmonic bal. every one i have worked on leaked like hell even when i tried the sleeve and seal just put a new one on save you a hole lot of

 

[85 4x4 22r]

Back Up and Running!

Thanks to all for the info and the help getting me through this process. this is a great board with lots of info and How too's.

Next up (at some point when the cash flow hits the positive side) rebuilding of the Solid Front Axel.

will keep you posted.