New H55 5 speed …is this normal shifting? (1 Viewer)

[bcrector]

I’m running an H55 5 speed I bought new. It sits behind an LS3 and Marks adaptor. Everything seems to operate well and the clutch has been adjusted correctly. First to second is really tricky..especially if im going over 10mph although I mainly take off in second. Second to third gear shift requires that I pause a split second before fully pushing it into gear. If I shift from second to third too quick then I can feel anywhere from a grumble to a grind through the shifter. If I count one-one thousand 2 while shifting it shifts fine without a grumble/grind. I’ve tried a GL4 80w90, redline MT-90, and currently have 85w140 gl5 lube in it. There wasn’t really much difference in shifting.. if anything the mt90 seemed slightly more susceptible to a grind given it was thinner. There was very minimal stuff on tbe magnetic plug when changing out the fluids… I have about 1200miles on it now. Is this normal? It up shifts/downshifts into 3rd fine as long as I take my time 1.5-2seconds… is this normal or is there something buggared from the get go? Thanks

 

[Mark W]

Does engine rpm affect it? Is it better or worse on downshifting? Is there any vibration?

What is "too quick"? Are you just shifting at a normal, but not "slow" pace, or are you trying to pull some ricky racer speed shifting?

Mark...

 

[sodafeld1]

I use to think the h55f slow eternal change from 2nd to 3rd was due to age on my 1988 hj75 with a 2h, but after driving my mates 1996 hzj75 hz with h55f in pretty good nick I was relieved that it was exactly the same.

The 70 series are meant to be rural workhorses, simple, basic, easy to fix.

So it does not surprise me it is the same even on a brand new box. It is only a perceived issue in city traffic. When bush and working with no bastard around you don't even notice the slowness of the box. They are strong and long lasting, but not the best for towing in 5th.

There is no comparison to an automatic nifty little hairdresser 's car to the h55f. I believe the newer toyota boxes are better and faster. But the h55f is what it is, not a city car. But it can start even in 3rd.

Side note, teaching my kids how to drive only on manual trans. The h55f is so slow, it the easiest car for them to get moving using the clutch. Like a tractor. They keep bunny hopping the hairdresser's car and stalling, much quicker and sensitive clutch.

1st gear on the h55f is absolutely awesome getting started, towing heavy loads in 4wd in muddy hills. In low4 she is an unstoppable tank. I have towed very heavy loads in low4 during monsoon storms in muddy hills at night, it occurred to me that not me that not many cars could do what I was doing. Faired dinkum.

Also, very impressed that toyota still offers the hz and h55f brand new off the shelf after so many years. It is testament to toyota's integrity. Slow but strong and reliable.

 

[bcrector]

Does engine rpm affect it? Is it better or worse on downshifting? Is there any vibration?

What is "too quick"? Are you just shifting at a normal, but not "slow" pace, or are you trying to pull some ricky racer speed shifting?

Mark...

Rpm doesn’t really seem to affect it. Downshifting seems a little less susceptible to a grind. Fast shifting I’d say would be a fluid motion from second to third in 1 sec. or less without a pause in the third gear gate. It’s like the syncro needs a little time. Going from third to 4th is like butter. 4th to 5th actually seems to shift slightly better with a quicker more fluid shift (1 second or so) it’s like each gear has its own personality…never really encountered this in any other manual trans car (I’ve driven about a dozen or more manuals of all shapes/sizes).

 

[sodafeld1]

sounds normal to me for the h55f

 

[Mark W]

Rpm doesn’t really seem to affect it. Downshifting seems a little less susceptible to a grind. Fast shifting I’d say would be a fluid motion from second to third in 1 sec. or less without a pause in the third gear gate. It’s like the syncro needs a little time. Going from third to 4th is like butter. 4th to 5th actually seems to shift slightly better with a quicker more fluid shift (1 second or so) it’s like each gear has its own personality…never really encountered this in any other manual trans car (I’ve driven about a dozen or more manuals of all shapes/sizes).

My specific questions were due to a situation I encountered recently with a brand new H55F. Sounds like it is not at all the same problem though.

I have noticed in several H55fs that the 2nd to 3rd gear shift can be a bit notchy and also not slip past the syncros as smoothly as you will have gotten used to with an H42. I would expect that it will settle in after a little use, but my expectation would be that it will never be quite as nice a shift 2-3 as the 42. Beyond that... I got nothing. Hopefully some with more experience with the 55F will pipe up.

Mark...

 

[bcrector]

The Muncie 4 speed in my other car takes shifts however I want without any hiccup. I’ve driven several Tremecs which were the same as well…I have to be much more polite with the h55f or it will let me know… especially the 2-3 shift. If only the tr4050 were not on backorder when I needed one during the build. O well… I suppose it gives the car character.

 

[mudgudgeon]

What you describe sounds similar to how a used h151/h150 will shift with old oil, or the wrong grade oil.

They are both big heavy boxes with big gears. The synchros do seem to need time to slow them for a shift. Matching RPM to the gear speed your are about to select makes a big difference too.
I've driven many vehicles without using the clutch to shift gears, 80 series included. Match engine speed to gear speed and it can be done with practically any gearbox with synchros

140w oil won't help at all IMO

I've used Castrol VMX-M with freaky good results in h15# boxes in 80series. It's a GL4, fiction modified oil. I think 75/w80, which is slightly below what toyota specifies.
I found it to a few thousand km for it to settle in.

I recently put Redline MT90 in my 80. Castrol VMX-M seems to be no longer available.
So far, the MT90 has negatively affected the shifting, but I've only put 500-ish km on it, so I'll hold judgement for now

 

[bcrector]

Yes indeed the 85w140 has only seemed to make cold shifting (first 10-15 minutes) a bit tougher over the Penn Grade gl4 80w90 but that’s whats in there right now so I may just leave it. With all the rave reviews on the MT90 I was not impressed with it in this trans…just seemed a little too thin for its liking.

 

[mudgudgeon]

just seemed a little too thin for its liking.

The H150F boxes do a lot better with the lighter oil. But, the lighter VMX-M I have used previously is friction modified.

I know guys used to put molybdenum additives into notchy gearboxes to help

 

[jayp2]

I also have a new H55F in a vehicle and its a slow notchy box but some of that is break in

If you're having trouble with a particular gear try double clutching and see if that makes a difference

 

[Chamba]

I've owned numerous H55s from the early 90s. I bought 2 brand new and one of those I put behind a Vortec 350. They are great, strong and mostly smooth (by truck standards) boxes. They are very comparable to the modern AX15 but far stronger.
However, I would say NEVER put heavier gear oil than 75w90 in. In fact, in cooler climates, I often added a pint of synthetic ATF to the mix.
It will take the box 1500 miles or so to break in nicely. I would run mineral 75w90 for the first 3000 miles, then change to good synthetic 75w90. If it's still a bit notchy for your liking after another 500 miles then suck out a pint of the gear oil and replace it with a good synthetic ATF.

 

[bcrector]

I've owned numerous H55s from the early 90s. I bought 2 brand new and one of those I put behind a Vortec 350. They are great, strong and mostly smooth (by truck standards) boxes. They are very comparable to the modern AX15 but far stronger. However, I would say NEVER put heavier gear oil than 75w90 in. In fact, in cooler climates, I often added a pint of synthetic ATF to the mix. It will take the box 1500 miles or so to break in nicely. I would run mineral 75w90 for the first 3000 miles, then change to good synthetic 75w90. If it's still a bit notchy for your liking after another 500 miles then suck out a pint of the gear oil and replace it with a good synthetic ATF.

I probably should drop the 85w140 and put in 80w90 to spare myself the cold shifting effort. The Penn Grade GL4 80w90 seemed fairly decent in hindsight although I had a T4 in an old CJ7 that ground every gear horribly with synchromesh but shifted like butter with super tech 80w90 conventional GL5 . I think the super tech is 1/2 the cost of the Penn Grade anyhow.. I know the factory recomendation was straight 90w.

 

[Chamba]

The only other thought I had (assuming the clutch and throwout are engaging all the way) was to be certain your pilot bearing isn't binding even slightly.

 

[bcrector]

The only other thought I had (assuming the clutch and throwout are engaging all the way) was to be certain your pilot bearing isn't binding even slightly.

I went through great lengths measuring/adjusting the clutch to attempt to get it as perfect as possible. Everything is new. It seems I can press in the clutch and very shortly after put it in reverse without grinding so I’d like to think the pilot bearing isn’t binding.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Match engine RPM to gear speed shifting up or down, and clutch adjustment won't be a factor.

In both my 80 series (1hd-t & 1fz-fe with H151F) RPM almost always makes a difference to how easily the box shifts

 

[jayp2]

I probably should drop the 85w140 and put in 80w90 to spare myself the cold shifting effort. The Penn Grade GL4 80w90 seemed fairly decent in hindsight although I had a T4 in an old CJ7 that ground every gear horribly with synchromesh but shifted like butter with super tech 80w90 conventional GL5 . I think the super tech is 1/2 the cost of the Penn Grade anyhow.. I know the factory recomendation was straight 90w.

75w90 is your friend in warm weather......but regardless of weather you need to confirm that what you use is yellow metal (syncro) friendly

Its getting harder and harder to find MT friendly gear oil.......

Only thing I could find locally was royal purple max.....

If it doesnt explicitly say g2g on manual transmissions/yellow metal then steer away from it

 

[Chamba]

If it's not grinding into reverse then I'd say you've got it adjusted well.
I'd follow my thoughts on the oil and I'm fairly confident you'll have good results once it's broken in.
Much of the viscosity has to do with the synchronisers: that's why newer AX15 gear boxes use ATF where older ones use 75w90; same bearings and gears but they switched from brass to composite synchros. The H55 is still brass so it likes the 75w90.

 

[iliketrucks]

You're not supposed to run gl5 in these if I remember correctly, if it's specifically advertised as yellow metal safe you might be okay though

 

[aztoyman]

Not the same trans but I have an R151F that did exactly what you are describing. Even after a rebuild with new syncros. It had been filled with GL5 because that's all I could find. I switched back to GL4 Sta-Lube and within a day or so it was smooth shifting and has been since. It also shifts good with the MT 90 though.

Maybe stick with some GL4 and give it some time? Good luck with it and please follow up.