Negative impact of longer then needed shocks ? (1 Viewer)

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Threads
33
Messages
600
Location
Roseville, CA
I've got the OME 850J & 863J springs sitting in the garage... and planned on getting some pro comp shocks to go with them.

Front #927530 Open 27.76 - Closed 16.27 - Travel 11.49
Rear #927514 Open 27.76 - Closed 16.27 - Travel 11.49

But after reading this thread here ... I'm strongly considering the Doetsch Shocks instead since they arent much more and seem to be a bit stiffer & maybe better quality ? then the pro comps...

After speaking w/ the OP on that thread, thank you 'slowsuki'.

Here are the options I have so far from Doetsch...
Front #8385 - Open 28.50 - Closed 16.00 - Travel 12.50
Rear #8386 - Open 29.50 - Closed 17.00 - Travel 12.50

or

Front #8361 Open 25.50 - Closed 14.50 - Travel 11.00
Rear #8350 Open 26.50 - Closed 15.50 - Travel 11.00

Which in any event, if I bought the OME kit, the shocks that woulda came with them would have been the following:
N73L*Front | Open 26.2" | Closed 14.9" / Travel roughly 11" give or take
N74L*Rear | Open 26.4" | Closed 15.6" / Travel roughly 11" give or take

SO, right now the truck is 100% stock, and I plan on running 33's at the end of the year (unless someone suggests differently for some reason)

And eventually would be running a rear bumper/tire carrier, sliders and a ARB bumper w/out winch. Full length roof rack and thats about it.
Obviously plans change, but thats the basis so far with no plans for anything super crazy ... as far as weight/gear ...

Would there be any negative effect to running the longer shocks ?

As far as driving conditions, it is a DD and right now not see'ing any trails or anything but want to get into it soon & as time allows.

Also, does putting trim packers affect shock choice ?

Thanks
 
Howdy! If the shocks are too long, then you will risk hitting the bottom of the shock on compression, before you get to the bumpstops. Not a good situation. John
 
On an 80, using long shocks means you may have limited up travel and extra down travel that can only be used by the rear suspension. This is an excellent way to ensure that your suspension is consistently "led by a corner" rather than well balanced up/down and front to rear.

A "stiffer" shock will exacerbate this, even though you might like it on the highway or if you drive fast overland.

What are you designing your suspension to accomplish?
 
What are you designing your suspension to accomplish?

Right now, it is my DD and primary vehicle/kid hauler. Also use it to pull my aluminum boat and friends 20' bass boat(fiberglass).

Otherwise, I'd say general off road and if I make the time, some light/medium level type four wheeling ... hope that doesnt sound stupid & makes sense.
 
id go for the 12.5s. im surprised L's are used for 6" kits. that seems way too short a shock. im on 4", and run 12" 5125s in the back and HD's up front with shock extenders. yeah they rub on full stuff, but i dont have any bump stops, let alone dropped ones. and im running 315's on stock wheels with no spacers. i don think they bottom out, ill have to check next time i get to flex out the back.

looks like the doetsch have built in bump stops...but that shouldnt be your only line of defense. definitely put some bump stop extensions and youll be good to go. im looking to get a set of doetsch shocks as well...

oh, and 33's will look tiny on J's, esp with a spacer to level it out. youll want to go at least 315s. then at that point, youll need sliders, then a front bumper, and then..
 
Would it be bad to mix match ? Longer in the rear, shorter in the front / vice versa?
Would it be useless to do that ?

Just trying to get a feel before I order ... which will be today when they open up =)
Rather make one order and be done with it, vs rebuying ... because I have no plans to change the suspension after this all done and said.
 
Howdy! If the shocks are too long, then you will risk hitting the bottom of the shock on compression, before you get to the bumpstops. Not a good situation. John

x2 on this. My previous employment was as an engineer at a shock company and we did several development projects for the military and I can tell you, this is a common no-no that many people & manufacturers overlook!

I am new to having my own 80 series but, in general, most ANY vehicle used on OR offroad should have shocks that:

  • don't limit the compression travel, either in typical jounce (L and R side of the axle at once...think: going straight over a speed bump) or with flexing it out. Move the bumpstops if you need to accomplish this.
  • don't limit the extension travel (you don't want to rip those shocks apart!). Get longer shocks if you need to.
  • at "ride height" there should be about 60% of the total shock travel available for compression, 40% for rebound.

For this final point, you should consider the ride height for when it's loaded for your expeditions, not for your trips to the grocery store...although you should always avoid the extremes if possible:
  • overloaded=very little compression travel=bad
  • stiffly sprung + too much preload + not enough weight = very little or no rebound travel=bad

Sometimes selecting proper shocks is difficult when trying to use stock mounts, but if you watch out for these things, you, your passengers, and your truck will be happier (and safer)! :grinpimp:

BTW, for those interested in Bajaing your trucks, a successful racer recommended to me that you have about 20% less compression travel in the front of a truck than in the rear. The reason: if (when) you hit a large bump going too fast, you will be much less likely to endo. I took his word for it and haven't personally tested this! :hmm:

Hope this helps!

-Michael
 
I'll be the desenting oppinion here.

There is no problem IF:

You mount them correctly.




If you are willing to modify mounts, there is no reason you can't run 12-14" travel shocks with J's.

There are a couple of ways you can chose the length.

A. Put 2" bumpstops on like most people running J's, Measure the length you have mount to mount, and choose a shock that is a tad shorter than that (allowing the bumpstop to compress a little).

B. Put your 33's on, bumpstop to insure they clear (not even sure this is necessary w/ 33's) and then choose your shock length accordingly.

C. My method - bumpstop to keep the tires from hitting. Get the longest shocks you can (mine are 14" travel) - and then build your shock mounts to accomodate these.

It comes down to how much work your willing to do and what your fabrication abilities are. a 12" shock in the rear should be fairly easy to do, you just have to modify the shock mouting brackets rather than putting an adapter on that shortens your allowable space. I'm actually surprised no vender has started selling this simple but very advantagous item. Here's mine - you likely won't have to do the clearancing I did as I'm using Rancho XL's that have a HUGE shock body. And I went way far up cause of the 14" shocks.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/162864-extended-shock-towers-14-rancho-9000xls.html

The front is harder to do. and you don't gain as much. It was the same cost for 10's, 12's, or 14's, so I went ahead and modified for 14's since it was really the same amount of work. Plus, I'm set up for any other changes that may come in the future for the front. For 12's, I'd probably just cut either side of the shock tower mount, bend that portion up, then weld braces on either side of it. I'd think most 10's would fit just fine, that's what FOR's kit uses with the adapter. You'll have to look at the compressed length though as not all 10" travel shocks are created equal. For example, the 12.875" travel Rancho XL's are 19.375" compressed vs. those Doestech's 17" colapsed - and that's not just cause of the eye mount, their data sheet shows the same thing for eye eye. 10's would also probably give you as much flex (though less absolute travel) as the stock radius arms will allow. 14's in the rear will unseat the springs and will require spring retainers

So if you can weld, running 10's and 12's would be pretty simple. Or, for $100 I'll take mine off and send them to ya' or make you a set. :)

Oh, and I don't buy into the whole 60%-40% rule. That's fine if you're setting up a buggy or other complete custom set up. I prefure to look at it as I want X inches of compression, then get as much extension as I can. Think of it this way, is it better to have 6" up travel and 4" down travel or 6" up travel and 8" down travel? Either way your the same on compression. But one is 60/40 and one is 43/57. Which would you rather have? You're up is going to be limited by ride height and tire clearance (bumpstops). Why would you limit the down movement just to maintain some ratio?
rear.jpg
 
Last edited:
In my experience; the best way to select shocks is to measure/fit them to your rig with your setup. I install the tires, springs, etc, determine bump stops needed for the tires to clear. Then fully flex the rig and measure between shock mounts, taking any mount mods/adapters needed/planed into account. The most important measurement is compressed.

If I had to guess, without seeing your setup in action, would go with the second set. They pretty closely match the L shock and L's are proven to work/flex well with little/no mods. Going with more can have benefits, but needs to be measured, fitted, to your setup.
 
Oh, I guess there is one other way of doing it, the wrong way - buy long shocks, put adapters in to mount them, then bumpstop to protect the shock. Thats' how you end up with what everyone is concerned with, too little up travel... Or the really wrong way, put in the long shocks, don't bumpstop to protect them, have crappy ride from no up travel and destroy your new shocks from bottoming them out.
 
Well it seems like the lesser travel shocks would be my "safe" approach.
Also, having zero fab ability limits my option for really making a great "fitment"

Additionally, since they closely mimic what would have came with them .. seems like they aren't a bad choice ... I guess. =)

Thanks for everyones help and immense knowledge.
I'll be sure to post pics after I get it all setup.
 
I spent a good part of the first quarter of this year agonizing over what type of lift I wanted based on what I wanted to do with the vehicle. I have used my LC historically for hunting and I will continue to do so. I also wanted to do more off-roading including moderate rock climbing. Primarily I wanted to put a truck together that would get me there and back even in pretty rough terrain as I often hunt alone.

Here are the conclusions I came to regarding the lift:
1. I wanted to run 35 inch mud tires because I wanted my axles to be higher from ground (raised minimum ground clearance). I was previously running 31 inch tires.
2. To run 35 inch tires without rubbing, I'd need at least a 3.5 inch lift. Doing a lift over 2.5 inches will require modifications over and above just shocks and springs if you want your vehichle to run smoothly. I went with the following components:
a. J Springs
b. L Shocks
c. Caster Correction Kit
d. Steering damper
e. Front swaybar blocks
f. Rear swaybar brackets
f. 2 inch front bumpstop pucks
g. 2 inch rear bumpstop blocks
h. 4 extended brakelines
i. extended differential breathers
j. extended transfer case and transmission breathers

You don't have to do all of these mods but I would recommend them as a minimum. To really understand why all of this is needed and additional mods you may want to consider, visit Christo Slee's website at www.sleeoffroad.com. I learned much of what I needed to know from his site. You can also get all of these components from Slee.

Keep in mind that you don't need these extended springs and shocks if you only want to run 33 inch tires. You run 33s with a 2.5 inch lift and avoid the need to do much of what is outlined above.....go to Slee's site!
 
I spent a good part of the first quarter of this year agonizing over what type of lift I wanted based on what I wanted to do with the vehicle. I have used my LC historically for hunting and I will continue to do so. I also wanted to do more off-roading including moderate rock climbing. Primarily I wanted to put a truck together that would get me there and back even in pretty rough terrain as I often hunt alone.

Here are the conclusions I came to regarding the lift:
1. I wanted to run 35 inch mud tires because I wanted my axles to be higher from ground (raised minimum ground clearance). I was previously running 31 inch tires.
2. To run 35 inch tires without rubbing, I'd need at least a 3.5 inch lift. Doing a lift over 2.5 inches will require modifications over and above just shocks and springs if you want your vehichle to run smoothly. I went with the following components:
a. J Springs
b. L Shocks
c. Caster Correction Kit
d. Steering damper
e. Front swaybar blocks
f. Rear swaybar brackets
f. 2 inch front bumpstop pucks
g. 2 inch rear bumpstop blocks
h. 4 extended brakelines
i. extended differential breathers
j. extended transfer case and transmission breathers

You don't have to do all of these mods but I would recommend them as a minimum. To really understand why all of this is needed and additional mods you may want to consider, visit Christo Slee's website at www.sleeoffroad.com. I learned much of what I needed to know from his site. You can also get all of these components from Slee.

Keep in mind that you don't need these extended springs and shocks if you only want to run 33 inch tires. You run 33s with a 2.5 inch lift and avoid the need to do much of what is outlined above.....go to Slee's site!

Yea, I've been reading up as much as I can handle ... & I have all those extra components ...

Although, along the lines you said is what my goal is. To be able to get there & back even in some rough terrain if needed ... Maybe more often for you, but just the capability is nice without being overly extreme.
 
Keep in mind that you don't need these extended springs and shocks if you only want to run 33 inch tires. You run 33s with a 2.5 inch lift and avoid the need to do much of what is outlined above.....go to Slee's site!

There are many who run combinations that Slee says won't work. There is definately a disagreement on how much lift is needed to fit what size tire. I won't go down the path of arguing it again, but I'll just say not everyone agrees with what's on his site - which hasn't updated the fit info in years.
 
There are many who run combinations that Slee says won't work. There is definately a disagreement on how much lift is needed to fit what size tire. I won't go down the path of arguing it again, but I'll just say not everyone agrees with what's on his site - which hasn't updated the fit info in years.

Just for the record, we have never said they do not work, we have just stated in the article you reference that is what we recommend. People can do with that info what they want. When talking about a true 35" tire, we still feel the same, so I do not see why we should change what we recommend just because a lot of people run smaller lifts with larger tires with a lot of cutting etc.

We also preface the article with the suggestions is based on the wheeling we do and have done. Total lift is also for underbelly clearance and approach and departure angles. Yes, running 37" tires on a low lift is possible and is being done routinely. But ask those some people regarding approach and departure angles and getting stuck in the belly of the beast and ask them if they would like more clearance? I can assure you in most cases people will say they do. Just see how many people cut the back cross members out of the truck. So the suggestions we make should be taken in context.

We can agree to disagree on that, and I am fine with that. We have done so in the past and it is all documented on here. I could probably update the site and add info on 4" and 6" lifts and how we recommend those since we don't offer a 5" lift anymore.

The article people reference is more about what changes with lift and what should be addressed as things change. All that has pretty much still stayed the same.
 
... There is definately a disagreement on how much lift is needed to fit what size tire. ...

I agree, the "art" of how the '80 works has progressed. Not so much an argument/disagreement as different users have differing uses, needs. Lots of owners run 35"s and even 37"s on smaller lifts and wheel them very successfully.

This rig (azrider) runs J's front, heavy rear, L shocks and 315 Nitto. I would call this wheelin?:hillbilly:

 
Just for the record, we have never said they do not work, we have just stated in the article you reference that is what we recommend. People can do with that info what they want. When talking about a true 35" tire, we still feel the same, so I do not see why we should change what we recommend just because a lot of people run smaller lifts with larger tires with a lot of cutting etc.

Just for the record, I don't care if you want to play the semantics of what 'works' vs. what is "recommended" - you're just playing word games.

You don't feel you should change your recomendation because you still feel the same, that 5" is the minimum w/o compromise, but then you say

I could probably update the site and add info on 4" and 6" lifts and how we recommend those since we don't offer a 5" lift anymore.

So, do you recomend 4" lift for 35's now to match your offerings, or do you still feel 5" is the minimum?

Don't answer, cause I don't care. All I said to begin with is not everyone agrees with the conclusions in that article - I'm not even the one that brought that article up cause I don't want to have another pointless pissing match. I will say though that the number of people willing to disagree with the idea of 5" is the minimum for 35's is much larger than it was 3 years ago. Evident by the number of people doing it.


as far as this comment....

Total lift is also for underbelly clearance and approach and departure angles. Yes, running 37" tires on a low lift is possible and is being done routinely. But ask those some people regarding approach and departure angles and getting stuck in the belly of the beast and ask them if they would like more clearance? I can assure you in most cases people will say they do.

I'll disagree with that too. There are alot of people that believe:

"At some point, lifting the truck does not gain you anything in terms of tire clearance. The only thing that happens is that the truck becomes top heavy" (same Slee article that Texasjack referenced).

Which is also a more common perception now days as people are trying to get away from really big lifts for that very reason.

Anyway, I'll stick with not everyone agrees with the stuff Texasjack referenced, and there are plenty of people running against those recomendations and performing well. It doesn't take long to search and find that info as well. I'm so far away from anything off the shelf at this point it doesn't much matter to me anymore.
 
'97 LX450 - locked, Goodyear MT's 37x12.5 R16.5 , J's, RS9000XL 14" shocks, 3" front drop brackets, 1" body lift, FOR custom front bumper,
Owner fabed rotating slider steps, rear bumper / hitch, front and rear extended shock mounts, front spring spacers 1.375",

So let me see, the above is what you run to clear 37's? Approx 5" of lift, give or take with 1 3/8" spacer and J springs with a really light bumper then you have a 1" body lift and cut your fenders open to clear the tires.

that is not much difference from the clearance we recommend, except the body lift vs suspension lift. Not sure what tires you are running right now, but some 37's are close to a true 35".

As for what we recommend, we do not sell anything on-line directly, we speak to every customer that buys a suspension from us and consult with them on what their needs are and what they expect. So yes, in certain cases, we would recommend 4" for 35's, especially if we are actually talking about 315's and we have determined the customers needs.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom