NEED A BOOST? Harrop/Eaton Supercharger

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I can’t fathom a responsible engine tuner allowing someone to bolt on a forced induction system and letting it run on stock fuel and spark tables.

Yeah you can let the knock sensors detect preignition and trim out some timing. Sounds like a great idea.

Or use your MAF to account for extra airflow and add fuel. But that does nothing for the different AFRs needed for greater than atmospheric manifold pressure.

I’m with Teckis on this and will go a step further. anyone producing a supercharger that “doesn’t need tuning” is selling an incomplete product and doesn’t care about the fact that it will damage your engine.
 
Hi, any further updates as yet?

I’m keen to see some pics, particularly the cooler mounted in the front. I did send you a PM...

Thanks, Greg.
 
I can’t fathom a responsible engine tuner allowing someone to bolt on a forced induction system and letting it run on stock fuel and spark tables.

Yeah you can let the knock sensors detect preignition and trim out some timing. Sounds like a great idea.

Or use your MAF to account for extra airflow and add fuel. But that does nothing for the different AFRs needed for greater than atmospheric manifold pressure.

I’m with Teckis on this and will go a step further. anyone producing a supercharger that “doesn’t need tuning” is selling an incomplete product and doesn’t care about the fact that it will damage your engine.

A supercharger that doesn't need any tuning is like saying you can go from 17 inch to 18 inch wheels without needing new tires... Engines (computers) don't work that way. At least not yet.
 
Hi, any further updates as yet?

I’m keen to see some pics, particularly the cooler mounted in the front. I did send you a PM...

Thanks, Greg.

Sorry for the late reply.

After a lot of consideration, I've decided that I simply do not trust Harrop enough to go this route. They "assumed" the US spec cruiser is the same as whatever rig they tested on. We already know the intercooler they supplied won't fit, but we don't even know about the ECU differences, or anything else for that matter! They advertised this as being bolt on ready, based on testing, but the simple fact is that it is 100% completely untested on a US spec truck. That is completely irresponsible. But on top of that, the icing on the cake, is their response once we pull the truck apart and realized we had problems. If I ended up having a warranty issue (which seems likely given that they've never tested this on a US spec system), I cannot imagine what it would be like to get them to cooperate. So at this point in time, I've scraped the project.

Now that we've wasted on ton of money and time on making this work based on their erroneous advertising, and their promise to make it right, I'll post a final update after all the dust settles, and we'll see how they make it right exactly.
 
Damn. Sorry you had to deal with this.

But.. not the first I’ve heard of issues of this sort with harrop. A major reason I’ll be running ARBs if I ever put selectable lockers in a vehicle in the future.
 
The Harrop SC unit itself is as good if not better than the TRD/Magnuson quality wise. Performance on the other hand, the TVS2650 is simply much more efficient and easier on the engine than the TVS1900. From experience the TVS2650 makes the same amount of boost/pressure at much lower blower RPMs and has more headroom for more power later on but it gets way more complicated (more on that below).

Their customer experience I have no idea about. But the few guys I met at the custom auto show last April here in Abu Dhabi were extremely friendly and didn't mind me and my friends asking questions for an hour at all.

With that out of the way, no offence but this product and even the Magnuson isn't meant for the US market in its current state. Especially if you're not willing to spend a huge amount of money and time to do it right. I lived in the states for 5 years and maybe seen 2-3 LC200 in that period. Aftermarket support is non existent at least performance wise. Here in the middle east they're literally everywhere and the aftermarket shows.

The 3UR platform has been R&D'd to hell and back since 2007 in many shops around the UAE alone. In the past two years, multiple options to tune the engine have become available and this includes almost all Toyota ECUs up until 2018 (Toyota changed ECU encryption in 2018, but it was cracked earlier this year. 2019 are still encrypted though). You can reflash the stock ECU almost in every dyno shop, Unichip Piggybacks were the common solution for the longest time, and even standalone Motec, Link, Syvec and Haltech ECUs are available. HP tuners just came out with a solution as well to tune the factory ECU but they're using the same protocol as the other Stock ECU tuners albeit with a much better interface. Tuning is 100% not an issue here.

In the States however, even late model Tundras have been ditched by TRD as they can no longer be flashed at the dealership after a supercharger install. You're limited to a few options. DAP, OV tuning, HP tuner or pay +$3000 for a standalone like I did. DAP, OV and HP tuners as I said use the same protocol for the OEM ECU. DAP needs to visit your state/town to tune your truck and if there are any issues afterwards you either tow the truck to his shop or wait for him to visit your state another time (probably not until 6-12 months after if ever). OV claims their solution is available but I haven't seen anything from them yet. HP tuners is realistically your only reasonable option but unfortunately unless you have some experience tuning, you'll need to find someone who is willing to tune it for you and there aren't many tuners experienced with this platform in the US because unfortunately in stock form, the 5.7L is very fragile.

The 3UR has weak piston rings and even weaker rods. They're pretty much limited to 500whp on a very "light" dyno (550hp crank give or take). Head studs can hold 10-12 psi for 60k miles before lifting, that's from personal experience (I drag raced my truck and made over 80 passes at the track before lifting the heads). Both Magnuson and Harrop make about the same power and boost (Harrop more efficiently and has less stress on the engine) in stock form and you should be able to get +100k miles with them or even last forever If you drive it reasonably. My cousin's Long Travel Tundra with 35" tires has been running 8 psi for the past 7 years and over 160k miles with zero issues. If you want more power than that, you will need forged internals and they are not cheap. 800hp rated pistons and rods will set you back at least $3000, labor and machining depends on the shop but it ain't cheap either.

Regarding Harrop claiming the LC/LX doesn't require tuning after the install, even though I would never recommend doing it I might know what they're talking about. If you ever stick a wideband sensor in a GCC spec LC or LX, they're extremely rich for a naturally aspirated engine dipping to 10:1 AFR at high revs. Ignition timing is a joke too (14-16 degrees max). A dyno tune alone with proper 12.5:1 AFR and proper ignition timing (+22 degrees) yields at least 40 to 50 hp gains. However these are Middle East spec LC200s. Even though they have the same engine as you guys in the states, they are rated to 362hp not 381hp so this might not apply to you guys. DAP might have helped Harrop in the states but the truck he tested it on was 100% tuned and not on factory tables. However Harrop had multiple shops here test it as well and I would bet some of those shops or owners who installed their units claimed their truck "works" with the stock tune by just swapping injectors to the ones TRD provided with their kit. To be clear that is absolutely not the right thing to do unless you want your truck to turn into a ticking bomb not to mention it will run extremely bad.

But I still have a hard time comprehending how a company as big as Harrop can recommend installing the supercharger on the stock maps. Are you sure they didn't mean stock ECU instead (which can clearly be tuned as I mentioned above)?
 
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Hi Everyone,

Regarding the low boost non-tune kit for the 3UR-FE see below tech article. Firstly, we have to agree 100% that if tuning were an option we would recommend it as stated previously in this thread.

Many on the Toyota Cal ID’s are yet to become available for tuning and there was demand for a solution for these vehicles, having purchased such a vehicle (2018 Tundra) for development we were able to make a number of assessments based on comparative engine loads, ignition timing, enrichment fueling and torque output.

Although unable to access the stock calibration, logged data in combination with access to other 3UR-FE calibrations does allow for some reasonable assumptions. From looking at multiple similar stock calibrations we were able to reasonably assess the upper limit of the existing tuning maps.

When assessing the vehicle software for suitability with mechanical alterations we look primarily at fuelling, ignition, load calculation and torque output.

The factory maps are very conservative on ignition timing, here in Australia our fuels vary from 91 through 95 and 98 RON, our vehicle when delivered on 91 RON fuel showed the vehicle to be running on the knock sensors, knock ears are used to confirm the effectiveness of the knock control and sensitivity. With the Supercharger installed and 98 RON fuel similarly low levels of knock retard were evident, in general no more than 2-3 degrees of knock retard was recorded and audible knock at the knock ears was no greater than experienced using 91 RON stock. Knock was only audible with knock ears; no knock was audible in the cabin as per the manufacture. Assessing knock sensitivity is a common tuning requirement due to the addition of mechanical changes that impact engine noise, often noisier mechanical components can result in false knock and low power output, fortunately the Toyota knock strategy proved to be very robust and well dialled in. Like many OE calibrations the Toyota spark strategy starts from being retarded, in this case 3 degrees, it will adapt up or down from there. If we take an example from our logs and compare them to the spark tables, we see in other accessible 3UR-FE calibrations that our run spark is actually running only 2-3 degrees lower than the commanded spark table at loads above 60% which is on par with the stock vehicle and low (standard) octane fuel.

In regards to fuelling these cars are MAF (mass air flow) based so boost pressure in not a factor for the ECU. The limiting factors are MAF flow and any ECU limits relating to flow. The stock (comparison) mapping extends to load of 110%, we see peak load supercharged of 140%, it is important to know what is going to happen when you go “off the map”. The additional airflow proved to be of no concern to the ECU, we measure peak airflow at 450 g/s with the supercharged unit. Testing at higher boost (80mm pulley) revealed limits, both an ecu 512 g/s calculation limit and the MAF voltage ceiling, in addition at higher flow levels the standard injectors do not have sufficient flow. Higher outputs will require tune scaling, larger MAF pipes and supporting fuel hardware. We were fortunate tuning became available for Tundra so further analysis of higher output and the respective limits became possible. The mixture commanded in the stock tune is very rich under load for catalyst and component protection, something most tuners would lean out for greater gains. The fuel system upgrades in no way alter the normal overheating protections, these fuelling protections are modelled in the ECU and based on airflow, not boost as no MAP sensor is present. The advantage here is that the protections will be available at the same rate of air flow as stock, no “performance tuning” means engine longevity is less compromised as the aftermarket tuner will generally lower or remove the factory protections in favour of HP. The modifications made to the fuel system also ensure the ECU hits is commanded target fuel and fuel trims are +/- 10% as we tested.

The output torque is clearly higher, the concern around output torque is that is calculated correctly, we are able to log increasing airflow and increasing load calculation, the relative torque output calculation is important for shift quality and torque reduction, by retaining the stock MAF and therefore stock airflow reading the transmission will see the relative torque increase and apply the required pressure and torque reduction changes.

To summarize we agree a tuned option would be preferred, while one does not exist, we opted to test the operation of the stock tune and are content that the modest boost upgrade (Stage 1 - 85mm pulley) works within the limits of the factory tune. The parameters of the stock tune extend satisfactorily to within the increased airflow of the upgrade as is evident by, timing and knock control when combined with 98RON fuel, component enrichment protection, increased shift torque reduction and the absence of modification induced MIL light from increased air flow.
 
Sorry for the late reply.

After a lot of consideration, I've decided that I simply do not trust Harrop enough to go this route. They "assumed" the US spec cruiser is the same as whatever rig they tested on. We already know the intercooler they supplied won't fit, but we don't even know about the ECU differences, or anything else for that matter! They advertised this as being bolt on ready, based on testing, but the simple fact is that it is 100% completely untested on a US spec truck. That is completely irresponsible. But on top of that, the icing on the cake, is their response once we pull the truck apart and realized we had problems. If I ended up having a warranty issue (which seems likely given that they've never tested this on a US spec system), I cannot imagine what it would be like to get them to cooperate. So at this point in time, I've scraped the project.

Now that we've wasted on ton of money and time on making this work based on their erroneous advertising, and their promise to make it right, I'll post a final update after all the dust settles, and we'll see how they make it right exactly.


In response to your feedback Chris, it is relevant to note that we, Harrop, offered you a full refund back in March when the front mount fitment issue was discovered by your workshop, who had attempted to fit the front mount radiator only while other upgrades were being installed on the your LX570.

The alternative we offered in March, if you were to fit the kit following our engineering revisions was a $1,000 or a free ELocker for your LX570 as goodwill. We didn't get a response from you until this week in June when you said you don't want to install the kit.

We acknowledge that you are not satisfied and have apologized that the product has not met your expectations upon delivery. We worked with urgency to attempt to resolve the fitment issues in March. As communicated this week we will be refunding the full value of the kit when it is received by our Harrop USA facility in Ohio.
 
Hi Heath, thanks for taking the time to create an account and post a reply.

As a local who is considering this option for a 2012 LX570 Tourer build, but is concerned about the charge cooler heat exchanger location due to bull bar, winch and potential auto cooler relocation, and the vehicle is not driveable, do you have any suggestions?

Would the cooler and mounts be available separately? Is it possible to obtain any pics of an install on this platform, or instructions?

Also you recently posted another (silver) Tundra video on YouTube, however there were no pre-install figures quoted, only 2 runs the latter with a higher boost figure, I assume it was a change to the 80mm pulley?

Thanks, Greg.
 
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Hi Heath, thanks for taking the time to create an account and post a reply.

As a local who is considering this option for a 2012 LX570 Tourer build, but is concerned about the charge cooler heat exchanger location due to bull bar, winch and potential auto cooler relocation, and the vehicle is not driveable, do you have any suggestions?

Would the cooler and mounts be available separately? Is it possible to obtain any pics of an install on this platform, or instructions?

Also you recently posted another (silver) Tundra video on YouTube, however there were no pre-install figures quoted, only 2 runs the latter with a higher boost figure, I assume it was a change to the 80mm pulley?

Thanks, Greg.

The heat exchanger is not that big and barley takes any room to interfere with the bumper (Pics of setup?). Regardless, if you know a decent fabricator he can probably make mounts that would fit your application.

Even though they're different trucks, I'm running a 3" 1300hp Treadstone intercooler, a 15x16 Setrab transmission cooler behind the crash bar and another 7x9 oil cooler on my twin turbo tundra with very minor bumper interference at the very bottom. I think a 1.5" heat exchanger would be able to slide in there just fine in an LX570.

IMG_20170221_083637_790.jpg
 
Hi Heath, thanks for taking the time to create an account and post a reply.

As a local who is considering this option for a 2012 LX570 Tourer build, but is concerned about the charge cooler heat exchanger location due to bull bar, winch and potential auto cooler relocation, and the vehicle is not driveable, do you have any suggestions?

Would the cooler and mounts be available separately? Is it possible to obtain any pics of an install on this platform, or instructions?

Also you recently posted another (silver) Tundra video on YouTube, however there were no pre-install figures quoted, only 2 runs the latter with a higher boost figure, I assume it was a change to the 80mm pulley?

Thanks, Greg.
Hi Greg

Sorry for the slow reply, I was away over the weekend and today. We have specific front mount radiator for LC200/LX570 and can take some pics tomorrow to share, the new unit tucks in neatly. We have a 2019 LX570 getting a kit this week, we will be doing a video with before and after. The silver Texas Edition came to us from our Dealer already with the kit installed, yes the second run is with 80mm pulley and injectors tuned with HP Tuners.

Would you like to arrange a visit to Harrop to tour the factory and review the hardware in person?

Regards
Heath
 
Heath, your dismissive, disingenuous and borderline dishonest response is a perfect illustration of why I am so surprised and disappointed with this situation. Let’s get the facts straight.

“the front mount fitment issue was discovered by your workshop, who had attempted to fit the front mount radiator only while other upgrades were being installed on the your LX570.”

That is only partially true, and ultimately irrelevant, unless you’re trying to downplay or minimize the reality of the problems that you’ve caused.

Fact is, multiple projects were scheduled for the vehicle, including the supercharger. There were several days scheduled, at the very end, for the s/c install, and I would pick up on Saturday upon flying back into town. The fact that other work was scheduled is completely irrelevant. Why mention it, unless trying to downplay?

Late in the week it was discovered that there was a fitment issue. It took several days to reach you guys. I was asked by the shop, “do you want us to put the truck back together? We can, but then we won’t have it here to take pics and measurements etc., when we finally hear from Harrop.” So at that point I decided to rent a vehicle, so that the LX would be accessible for pics and measurements. I rented it for one week.

Now keep in mind I was sold a product that was supposed to be tested, and bolt on ready, for my exact application. This was not supposed to a trial run, or a test fitting, but a pre-tested, bold-on ready product, costing almost $10,000.

Michael finally received an email from you (Harrop) on Monday, 3/12. You requsted pics, which were supplied. You then supplied a PDF showing a different intercooler, and inquired as to if Michael thought it would fit. Wednesday 5PM there was still no solution.

After confirming what appeared to be an intercooler that would fit, Michael was told on Thursday that the intercooler he approved would be “will be shipped to you in the next day or so.” You also called me and explained what was going on. I approved the other intercooler, being told it was simply a different mounting design.

So I extended my rental for a few more days. And keep in mind that Michael only has (2) work bays, and we’re now at all full week of ½ of his shop space being unusable, because you did not supply what you advertised.

Five days later we finally get tracking info! Its now Tuesday afternoon.

Come to find out, it had shipped on Monday, from not too far south of us, using the absolute slowest method possible, ground shipping. So now we discover that the intercooler isn’t arriving until later in the week. So I extend my rental further, and Michael still has his bay being used.

Friday afternoon the intercooler finally comes and guess what, you shipped the wrong intercooler! Its not the one that Michael approved. So we contact you to figure out what is going on. The week is shot.

Monday comes, you guys don’t have an explanation, so I tell Michael to put my LX back together, and I extend my rental further! And Michael’s shop is almost 2 hours away from me, and I cannot just drop what I am doing and go return a rental car and then pick up mine whenever I want, so I extend until Friday morning. You finally reply that you hope to send a prototype in May, 45-60 days later.

You then advise us that, yes, the wrong intercooler was sent, and the correct one is being sent.

At this point, Michael has had his bay blocked for more than an extra 2 full weeks. This could have been avoided if you had shipped the replacement in a timely manner, or advised us that it would be more than a week until it would arrive, and that it would arrive Friday afternoon, meaning that work on the LX would not actually resume for 10 more days. Had we known that I could have saved 10+ days of rental car expenses, and Michael could have had his bay back for the entire next week.

And at this point he got 10-20 hours in taking measurement, brain storming, calling other people, and doing everything that he can do to make this work – all because you sold a product that did not actually fit, and come to find out, has never actually been tested on this application.

Well, eventually you send us the intercooler that Michael approved. And guess what? It is about half the capacity of the one you originally supplied!

So now we are stuck with an odd situation. We know the size of the intercooler your engineering team has decided should go with my application. But we’ve also learned that you’ve never actually tested my application. Furthermore, we really do not know about the ECU setting on my application, so its all just speculation! On top of that, the new suggested intercooler is about half the capacity of the originally spec’d intercooler.

So the reality is that you sold a tested, bold on ready product. But now you want us to install the supercharger with an intercooler that is half the original spec. Has this combo been tested? No. On top of that, you don’t even know about my ECU, whether or not it is the same as what you tested back in the AU. And even if it is, you have not tested this combination of ECU and s/c and intercooler. But you want me to be the test dummy, on a 2018 model vehicle that costs $100,000.

The reality is that you made a lot of assumptions, without actually doing your due diligence. You say you had no way to knowing that the US spec system was different. That’s simply not true. You could have, and should have accessed a parts catalog. The various part numbers and diagrams are different. This is easily determined. Yet you did not do it.

So now I have had to shell out a ton of cash, because of your error. Michael has lost 2 weeks of usage of his bay. He also has many more hours working on this project.

So how do you summarize the situation, in your reply to me on this post?

“We acknowledge that you are not satisfied and have apologized that the product has not met your expectations upon delivery.”

Are you kidding me? It has not “met my expectations”?

What an absolute disaster, and a joke of customer service. Yea, Im not satisfied, because it has not “met my expectations.”

You say at the beginning of the post, “In response to your feedback Chris, it is relevant to note that we, Harrop, offered you a full refund back in March when the front mount fitment issue was discovered by your workshop.”

Wow, way to really go out of your way. You sold me a product that does not actually fit as advertised, nor has it actually been tested on my application. Offering to refund my money is really going above and beyond. Who would have expected that you’d make such a generous offer.

And this is what I mean when you say that your response is disingenuous, dismissive, and borderline dishonest.

I expect this from a vendor selling something that cost a few hundred dollars, or maybe even a thousand. But we're talking about an almost $10,000 part here. And I've now got more than $2,000 in additional expenses, solely and exclusively because of your screw up. So I should just send it back, and eat over $2,000, because you sold me a product that does not fit, nor was tested for my application? I am not sure what world you operate in, but in the real work, that is absolutely horrendous customer service, and the opposite of taking responsibility.
 
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Heath, your dismissive, disingenuous and borderline dishonest response is a perfect illustration my I am so surprised and disappointed with this situation. Let’s get the facts straight.

“the front mount fitment issue was discovered by your workshop, who had attempted to fit the front mount radiator only while other upgrades were being installed on the your LX570.

That is only partially true, and ultimately irrelevant, unless you’re trying to downplay or minimize the reality of the problems that you’ve caused.

Fact is, multiple projects were scheduled for the vehicle, including the supercharger. There were several days scheduled, at the very end, for the s/c install, and I would pick up on Saturday upon flying back into town. The fact that other work was scheduled is completely irrelevant. Why mention it, unless trying to downplay?

Late in the week it was discovered that there was a fitment issue. It took several days to reach you guys. I was asked by the shop, “do you want us to put the truck back together? We can, but then we won’t have it here to take pics and measurements etc., when we finally hear from Harrop.” So at that point I decided to rent a vehicle, so that the LX would be accessible for pics and measurements. I rented it for one week.

Now keep in mind I was sold a product that was supposed to be tested, and bolt on ready, for my exact application. This was not supposed to a trial run, or a test fitting, but a pre-tested, bold-on ready product, costing almost $10,000.

Michael finally received an email from you (Harrop) on Monday, 3/12. You requsted pics, which were supplied. You then supplied a PDF showing a different intercooler, and inquired as to if Michael thought it would fit. Wednesday 5PM there was still no solution.

After confirming what appeared to be an intercooler that would fit, Michael was told on Thursday that the intercooler he approved would be “will be shipped to you in the next day or so.” You also called me and explained what was going on. I approved the other intercooler, being told it was simply a different mounting design.

So I extended my rental for a few more days. And keep in mind that Michael only has (2) work bays, and we’re now at all full week of ½ of his shop space being unusable, because you did not supply what you advertised.

Five days later we finally get tracking info! Its now Tuesday afternoon.

Come to find out, it had shipped on Monday, from not too far south of us, using the absolute slowest method possible, ground shipping. So now we discover that the intercooler isn’t arriving until later in the week. So I extend my rental further, and Michael still has his bay being used.

Friday afternoon the intercooler finally comes and guess what, you shipped the wrong intercooler! Its not the one that Michael approved. So we contact you to figure out what is going on. The week is shot.

Monday comes, you guys don’t have an explanation, so I tell Michael to put my LX back together, and I extend my rental further! And Michael’s shop is almost 2 hours away from me, and I cannot just drop what I am doing and go return a rental car and then pick up mine whenever I want, so I extend until Friday morning. You finally reply that you hope to send a prototype in May, 45-60 days later.

You then advise us that, yes, the wrong intercooler was sent, and the correct one is being sent.

At this point, Michael has had his bay blocked for more than an extra 2 full weeks. This could have been avoided if you had shipped the replacement in a timely manner, or advised us that it would be more than a week until it would arrive, and that it would arrive Friday afternoon, meaning that work on the LX would not actually resume for 10 more days. Had we known that I could have saved 10+ days of rental car expenses, and Michael could have had his bay back for the entire next week.

And at this point he got 10-20 hours in taking measurement, brain storming, calling other people, and doing everything that he can do to make this work – all because you sold a product that did not actually fit, and come to find out, has never actually been tested on this application.

Well, eventually you send us the intercooler that Michael approved. And guess what? It is about half the capacity of the one you originally supplied!

So now we are stuck with an odd situation. We know the size of the intercooler your engineering team has decided should go with my application. But we’ve also learned that you’ve never actually tested my application. Furthermore, we really do not know about the ECU setting on my application, so its all just speculation! On top of that, the new suggested intercooler is about half the capacity of the originally spec’d intercooler.

So the reality is that you sold a tested, bold on ready product. But now you want us to install the supercharger with an intercooler that is half the original spec. Has this combo been tested? No. On top of that, you don’t even know about my ECU, whether or not it is the same as what you tested back in the AU. And even if it is, you have not tested this combination of ECU and s/c and intercooler. But you want me to be the test dummy, on a 2018 model vehicle that costs $100,000.

The reality is that you made a lot of assumptions, without actually doing your due diligence. You say you had no way to knowing that the US spec system was different. That’s simply not true. You could have, and should have accessed a parts catalog. The various part numbers and diagrams are different. This is easily determined. Yet you did not do it.

So now I have had to shell out a ton of cash, because of your error. Michael has lost 2 weeks of usage of his bay. He also has many more hours working on this project.

So how do you summarize the situation, in your reply to me on this post?

“We acknowledge that you are not satisfied and have apologized that the product has not met your expectations upon delivery.”

Are you kidding me? It has not “met my expectations”?

What an absolute disaster, and a joke of customer service. Yea, Im not satisfied, because it has not “met my expectations.”

You say at the beginning of the post, “In response to your feedback Chris, it is relevant to note that we, Harrop, offered you a full refund back in March when the front mount fitment issue was discovered by your workshop.”

Wow, way to really go out of your way. You sold me a product that does not actually fit as advertised, nor has it actually been tested on my application. Offering to refund my money is really going above and beyond. Who would have expected that you’d make such a generous offer.

And this is what I mean when you say that your response is disingenuous, dismissive, and borderline dishonest.

I expect this from a vendor selling something that cost a few hundred dollars, or maybe even a thousand. But we're talking about an almost $10,000 part here. And I've now got more than $2,000 in additional expenses, solely and exclusively because of your screw up. So I should just send it back, and eat over $2,000, because you sold me a product that does not fit, nor was tested for my application? I am not sure what world you operate in, but in the real work, that is absolutely horrendous customer service, and the opposite of taking responsibility.
Sounds like HeathHarrop needs to close up shop - after refunding you your costs and the lost costs for the shop.. A business is built on customer service and this doesn't just sound like a failure, but flat out incompetence combined with zero common sense in their response.
 
Sounds like HeathHarrop needs to close up shop - after refunding you your costs and the lost costs for the shop.. A business is built on customer service and this doesn't just sound like a failure, but flat out incompetence combined with zero common sense in their response.

I bet that for a project in AU where there are no unknowns, and they can hook up to the scanners, etc., it is a different story. But this is a different market, and they simply aren't prepared to deal with it.
I deal with some pretty complex projects, professionally, with a lot of moving parts and a lot of various contractors all having the be tightly coordinated, and hospital patient care on the line. I operate with the understanding that everyone makes mistakes, bad assumtions, poor planning, etc. In one sense, the manifestation of problems means very little. The real test of a company is how they deal with problems once they arise. There are a variety of ways to evaluate how one handles a problem that they've created and that others are suffering from. Not even considering the actual handing of the issues, at the end of the day, Heath's response really doesn't even convey any sense of responsibility, understanding, or sorrow/compassion. I am supposed to trust my motor and a potential warranty claim to these guys?:rofl:o_O:censor:
 
I bet that for a project in AU where there are no unknowns, and they can hook up to the scanners, etc., it is a different story. But this is a different market, and they simply aren't prepared to deal with it.
I deal with some pretty complex projects, professionally, with a lot of moving parts and a lot of various contractors all having the be tightly coordinated, and hospital patient care on the line. I operate with the understanding that everyone makes mistakes, bas assumtions, poor planning, etc. One one sense, the manifestation of problems means very little. The real test of a company is how they deal with problems once they arise? There are a variety of ways to evaluate how one handles a problem that they've created and that others are suffering from. Not even considering the actual handing of the issues, at the end of the day, Heath's response really doesn't even convey any sense of responsibility, understanding, or sorrow/compassion. I am supposed to trust my motor and a potential warranty claim to these guys?:rofl:o_O:censor:

I don't know any more than what's been written here, but it seems like they were biting off more than they were prepared to chew... Probably should have thrown up their own red flag before you had to.

On the BRIGHT side... Stories like this make me appreciate all the more....
-The massive success Ward Harris and Georg and Cruiser Bros & Valley Hybrids accomplished in bringing US-Spec LRA tanks to the US 200. No easy task. Since Ward Harris started this thread, I feel like it's worth remembering that intentions were good, and bring stuff to our tiny market is super tricky.
 
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Wow that really sucks and I can definitely feel your pain as I have been in your situation and worse when I was building my truck in the states. Dynosty (even though they did an amazing job) took almost 2 years to build my truck due to custom ordered parts and fabrication as it's really not a popular platform to modify. However I knew what I signed up for and I had another ride to use meanwhile while I was home.

Regarding the Harrop unit, as I said in my previous post, these were mostly tested here in the ME where labor is extremely cheap and fabrication and modification can be easily done. Your situation would have probably been solved in an afternoon by simply modifying the initial heat exchanger you recieved. However, I do understand that when you buy a bolt-on unit you shouldn't be facing such issues in the first place.

The Harrop units were initially sold as an "upgrade" to the TRD supercharger for the first few months. They would simply swap the blower and the idler pulley bracket and call it a day. As we all know, the TRD kit was made for the Tundra and Sequoia and needed some modifications to be installed on an LC/LX.

I assume Harrop had the same idea and didn't factor in the difference between the Tundra/Sequoia and the LC/LX.

Regarding the ECU, I checked with a friend who tunes LC/LXs regularly and only the 2018 Tundra can be tuned so far. The 2016-2017 LC and LX can be tuned as well. However the 2018 & 2019 LC/LX can't be tuned due to the new encryption. People who want to tune theirs swap the ECU to a 2017 model, which requires all sorts of handshakes between the systems.

In short, your 2018 LX can't be tuned using the stock ECU yet without buying a $1000 2017 ECU. Sorry.
 
Hi Greg

Sorry for the slow reply, I was away over the weekend and today. We have specific front mount radiator for LC200/LX570 and can take some pics tomorrow to share, the new unit tucks in neatly. We have a 2019 LX570 getting a kit this week, we will be doing a video with before and after. The silver Texas Edition came to us from our Dealer already with the kit installed, yes the second run is with 80mm pulley and injectors tuned with HP Tuners.

Would you like to arrange a visit to Harrop to tour the factory and review the hardware in person?

Regards
Heath
Hi Heath, thanks for the info, and yes I would like to review the hardware in person and see the facility.

It’s not at all urgent, but please let me know what I need to do.

Regards, Greg.
 
Hi Heath, thanks for the info, and yes I would like to review the hardware in person and see the facility.

It’s not at all urgent, but please let me know what I need to do.

Regards, Greg.
Hi Greg, absolutely no problem, we just finished up 2019 LX570 last week. Send an email to performancecentre@harrop.com.au and we can get a visit set-up. Or call 9474 0900 and ask for Heath.. Cheers.
 
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