NEA Meeting 6/30/12

[high country cruiser]

I restored what Rick erased because it's important that we have the information from the NEA.
I thought that this was a worthwhile thread and will be starting a new one with much of the same issues.

Thanks,
Bob



I went to the NEA Meeting today in Buzzards Bay, Ma. and I will post the official "meeting bullets" soon.

There were many topics discussed, but I will start w/ the most important.

#1 PLEASE DO NOT DRIVE OVER ORANGE FENCING OR BRUSH PILES @ GRETCHENS. THE TRAILS ARE BEING CLOSED FOR A REASON BY THE LAND OWNER! ALSO NO TRAIL BRAIDING IF YOU CAN'T MAKE IT, WINCH OUT DON'T MAKE YOUR OWN NEW TRAIL!

#2 WHEN USING SWANZEY TRAILS ENTER FROM THE SWANZEY SIDE NOT FROM THE TROY SIDE. THE TOWN OF TROY IS VERY SENSITIVE RIGHT NOW.
PLEASE KEEP TIRE NOISE TO A MINIMUM. THE LAND OWNERS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT 4WHEELERS WHIZZING BY AND HOW LOUD THE TRUCKS ARE.

#3 WHEN OUT ON ANY TRAILS AND YOU CAN'T MAKE IT, DON'T GRAB THE CHAIN SAW AND CUT DOWN TREES TO GO AROUND SOMETHING.

 

[remy1974]

Thanks for making it to the meeting Rick greatly appreiciated.
As far as the noise and the trail damage goes when we as a club go out on runs a thought could be to take pics of any damage or such and send it to the land or property manager rep on the nea to help cover our group as such, just kinda bouncing a thought around.

 

[landtank]

by and large the louder trucks are running GM V8s. My truck is also pretty loud and I have plans on addressing it. But if noise is going to be an issue that we address as a club then looking closely at our exhaust systems is going to have to happen.

 

[landtank]

I was referring to engine exhaust noise. Some of our trucks are god awful loud and I'm sure people get tired of hearing them if they are close to anywhere we are driving.

I'd bet that people hearing the truck rev up their engines over and over again at a given point gives them the idea that we are tearing up the place.

As they say, perception is 90% of reality and we have been loosing the perception battle for quite some time.

 

[rain76king]

I agree with Landtank here.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't to single out the v8 guys.

I don't think any of us are trying to be loud and obnoxious look at me people,
but many of the trucks sporting the v8's are loud.
Add some low gearing and a performance exhaust your making more noise than you may realize running through people's neighborhoods that think you are going faster than you really are.

I used to be into mustangs and often I got the impression that people thought I was going faster than I really was because of the sound.
Fast forward 10 years and now I have a kid with a GT mustang that cruises up and down my street going a little faster than he should with his hopped up exhaust and now I'm the fist shaker.....

I often ask the people I am on a trail ride with to not run high RPMs on the way in and out of residential areas specifically for this reason.

 

[rain76king]

Thanks for making the meeting Rick.
Much appreciated.

 

[cruiserland]

live free or die quietly

screw it I am getting a Harley and putting a 4 inch exhaust on my dually

thanks for getting to the meeting Rick, and sticking up for YT......missed you big time on the dry rocks....

I can easily see both ways on the noise issue, but ultimately, if the vehicle is legal and inspected on a public road or private property, tough s***. To single out one type of vehicle is stupid, and fairly un-PC....
A 2F with a flowmaster is pretty loud, as are the diesels when opened up, my 80 is too loud...easy to point fingers at V8s tho...even if they made no noise, someone would be pissed....
not to mention, one rowdy local(or not) kid in a loud truck can set the stage for everyone else

Anyone who has camped at an event knows you hear the swampers WAYYYYYY before the engines comin down the road.....even going slowish..just sayin
trail leaders, slow down and so will everyone else behind you....


All that said, I personally try to make as little noise as possible in residential areas and keep my monsters on private property, they are loud and obnoxious.
I did go to my neighbors and warn them you all were coming up here...they were appreciative, I am sure they could hear us all day and half the night, fwiw


Perhaps the club or NEA could/should approach the few affected communities and offer some sort of compensation for use of town roads;be it work day or monies for road upkeep, something the townspeople can look to for acceptance....individual landowners are compensated, why not a nominal registration fee which gives each affected town a few bucks?

As far as trail braiding/go arounds (Gretchen's or anywhere) maybe there should be some sort of requirements for extreme wheeling, like WINCH AND LOCKERS, might help;let pretty, open, winchless rigs in there and goarounds will be needed and made....you want to play big, build it I did fall off a trail at gretchens into the bushes, so there must also be some understanding when you let these things onto tough trails, the land is being USED, but blatant disrespect is not acceptable.
I think at least a winch should be required, not to mention a fire extinguisher...
self sufficiency, pretend you are alone, would you even be there, or are you relying on others constantly, not that I dont like pushing limits


mmmm coffee

 

[Krazyfj]

I'm not sure if YT does this but in my other club (we have 4 private properties exclusively) we use and enforce a 3 try rule on any obstacle, 3 tries and you winch unless your making forward progress, anyone overly spinning tires to heat them up gets shut down, we also have rig limits on each trail, 33" tires min, 1 locker & a winch etc.
Maybe something like that should be set up, we also have Trail leader training to learn our rules and learn how to enforce them,

 

[Leaping Deer]

Anyone who has camped at an event knows you hear the swampers WAYYYYYY before the engines comin down the road.....even going slowish..just sayin
trail leaders, slow down and so will everyone else behind you....

Well said Kina. I think the swampers make more noise than engine.

Rick, thanks for making the meeting.

 

[rapovt]

I am a land surveyor and I deal with town road issues all the time, With the town and in court.
First , I agree and everyone needs to obey the speed limit and keep the noise down.
Second, This is a public highway open to the public. It provides access to the 1300 hundred acre parcel (and others), which I presume pays some pretty hefty taxes. The people that are complaining use the road every day, their mail is delivered, their UPS truck delivers packages, their oil and gas is delivered, their garbage is picked up, their firewood is delivered, their plumber comes over it to fix their toilet, their logger uses it, their excavator brings equiptment to grade their driveway and many more trips for a variety of uses. These people are complaining and want us to not use the road. What do you think they would say if the selectmen said that they could not use the road?
This is a public road and the selectmen have no right to limit access to the parcels that are along the road. That is the law!!. The NEA and the landowners needs to stand up for their rights. No compensation or work should be done to use this road. Do the loggers pay to use this road?-no
The selectmen around here will bow to public pressure and do things that they are not allowed to do until someone (usually a lawyer) stands up for what is right.
A few years ago, a group was wheeling in a town near here. They were met by 2 men with shotguns who said to leave. They explained that it was their right to be on this road, as shown by the town road map. Two weeks later, they were served a lawsuit by the town selectmen for knowingly destroying public property or something along those lines. One of the group just happened to be a lawyer and responded basically saying"good, lets go to court". It was dropped in 2 days. You need to stand up to the people that are complaing. my 2 cents

 

[landtank]

I only pointed out the V8s as in my experience as a group they are the loudest at any event. I heard trucks coming down Bickford road and it was loud exhausts not tires. Maybe they weren't running swampers but how loud can a tire be on dirt?

I watched a great area in North Carolina get shut down and talked with the people in the local club about what they were doing and my concerns. They felt they were in the right and now it's gone for ever, so it seems.

It really has nothing to do with whether or not it's legal or right either way but more of who has the backing to force their will upon the other and if they decide to use it or not. It's been that way for centuries through out history and I really don't see our situation any different.

If you guys decide to stand and fight I feel we will loose miserably. Take a look at Tellico.

IMO the best hope for our sport is to become as invisible as possible and hope for a change in the prevailing attitude of the towns.

 

[SouthBostonFJ40]

A few years ago, a group was wheeling in a town near here. They were met by 2 men with shotguns who said to leave. They explained that it was their right to be on this road, as shown by the town road map.

Out of curiosity, are weapons allowed on trail runs? Assuming one is properly licensed of course.

 

[rain76king]

I have read a lot of valid points through out this thread.
It's important to note that we are all in agreement that we need to limit the motor/exhaust/tire noise regardless of what we are driving.

I'm not even going to touch the trail braiding issue because that's just a blatant disregard to the landowner's wishes and will eventually lead to more lost properties to wheel.

I can easily see both ways on the noise issue, but ultimately, if the vehicle is legal and inspected on a public road or private property, tough ****. To single out one type of vehicle is stupid, and fairly un-PC....

I share your stance on if your legal and inspected then there shouldn't be much to be said but unfortunately these folks complaining are the gatekeepers to our playground and to give them a tough s*** attitude would be pretty harmful.

Perhaps the club or NEA could/should approach the few affected communities and offer some sort of compensation for use of town roads;be it work day or monies for road upkeep, something the townspeople can look to for acceptance....individual landowners are compensated, why not a nominal registration fee which gives each affected town a few bucks?

I feel like the NEA does a pretty good job in the upkeep of affected Unmaintained Rds.
As far as financialy compensating the towns....why?
These towns are paid for their unmaintained roads...It's pretty much free money to the towns and from what I understand they get paid per the length of the road.
They get paid by the government from taxes they have already taken from taxpayer (you and I) so to offer more money to the community doesn't seem right to me.


I think the key is to educate people better as to what we are doing in these woods and to demonstrate that mostly it's a very small percentage of our community that are ripping up the trails or speeding through their neighborhoods.

For example I have taken a few people out on trail rides that were pretty much against what we do until after they rode with me and realized we are not driving through the woods at 60 mph running over wildlife and saplings.

Unfortunately many people are stereotyping us with those who don't care much about our environment and I certainly haven't seen that in our group.

I'm not sure if YT does this but in my other club (we have 4 private properties exclusively) we use and enforce a 3 try rule on any obstacle, 3 tries and you winch unless your making forward progress, anyone overly spinning tires to heat them up gets shut down, we also have rig limits on each trail, 33" tires min, 1 locker & a winch etc.
Maybe something like that should be set up, we also have Trail leader training to learn our rules and learn how to enforce them,

I like that Tom but you first need trail leaders to train and unfortunately we have very few willing to be trail leaders.

I heard trucks coming down Bickford road and it was loud exhausts not tires. Maybe they weren't running swampers but how loud can a tire be on dirt?

That was exactly what I was thinking about when I first posted.
Regardless of motor type I always tell folks if you can hear your tires humming your going too fast through those neighborhoods.

This is a very sensitive subject, I understand, lots of opinions. , but we as a Club must represent as a whole.

I like all posts so far and feel that they are very worthy, where do we go from here?

Bob, please create a "vote thread" on the subject.

We are the minority here " Jeeps are everywhere in the NEA" just saying...

Rick, I support you and Justin in your new position and wish you all the best.
Please understand that in your new Role you now represent the entire four wheel drive community regardless of what they drive.

As far as a vote thread I'm confused as to what you want to vote on and why.

Thanks

 

[cruiserland]

BAM!

Respect gets Respect

No respect gets No respect

I am a land surveyor and I deal with town road issues all the time, With the town and in court.
First , I agree and everyone needs to obey the speed limit and keep the noise down.
Second, This is a public highway open to the public. It provides access to the 1300 hundred acre parcel (and others), which I presume pays some pretty hefty taxes. The people that are complaining use the road every day, their mail is delivered, their UPS truck delivers packages, their oil and gas is delivered, their garbage is picked up, their firewood is delivered, their plumber comes over it to fix their toilet, their logger uses it, their excavator brings equiptment to grade their driveway and many more trips for a variety of uses. These people are complaining and want us to not use the road. What do you think they would say if the selectmen said that they could not use the road?
This is a public road and the selectmen have no right to limit access to the parcels that are along the road. That is the law!!. The NEA and the landowners needs to stand up for their rights. No compensation or work should be done to use this road. Do the loggers pay to use this road?-no
The selectmen around here will bow to public pressure and do things that they are not allowed to do until someone (usually a lawyer) stands up for what is right.
A few years ago, a group was wheeling in a town near here. They were met by 2 men with shotguns who said to leave. They explained that it was their right to be on this road, as shown by the town road map. Two weeks later, they were served a lawsuit by the town selectmen for knowingly destroying public property or something along those lines. One of the group just happened to be a lawyer and responded basically saying"good, lets go to court". It was dropped in 2 days. You need to stand up to the people that are complaing. my 2 cents

 

[cruiserland]

Well said Rick, I own a V8 w/ gear-drive and it's loud I'm sure.


We are the minority here " loud V8 Jeeps are everywhere in the NEA" just saying...

we are all jeeps to THEM

wait til I finish my street legal rock buggy mofo's

thanks for stepping up Rick

 

[rain76king]

I think this thread has gotten a little of track here.

I have asked someone with more insight into the Swanzey situation to step in and get this thread pointed back in the proper direction.

As far as being in the minority, when it comes to trail closures it's just going to suck for all of us across the board regardless of vehicle type.

 

[cruiserland]

we are all jeeps to THEM

thanks for stepping up Rick

Well Rick did ask for views and/or opinions, no?
we are all jeeps to them>>
to me meant we need to stick together on this as a group, jeeps too.

in NH it is legal to make a custom vehicle to your own design as long as it does adhere to a certain list of legal criteria;I am serious about the death buggy

3 ways to go

1 GARY IS SPOT ON, WE DO PAY, IT IS PUBLIC. WE ARE TRYING TO BE LEGAL, LET THE TOWN COP SIT THERE, WTF!
2 or be like Mass and tax em extra for getting to/using their own land
3 or make it illegal to choose your preferred recreation device, horses are fine, but you are supposed to pick up the s*** on some roads

when wheelin is outlawed, only outlaws will be wheelin

 

[cruiserland]

thread closed? HAHAHAHA
what next, Road closed to jeeps and toyotas only?
I have plenty more to say about freedom,

 

[chill will]

Bob you said "For example I have taken a few people out on trail rides that were pretty much against what we do until after they rode with me and realized we are not driving through the woods at 60 mph running over wildlife and saplings." Maybe we should invite the gatekeepers to these roads and the ones that are complaining on a trail ride. This way they will see what actually goes on. They will see first hand that the majority are responsible.

 

[rain76king]

I never closed this thread.
I had closed the previous thread because we were asking for people to attend a meeting.
Once the meeting date had passed I closed the thread.

You are mistaken.