More Welder Questions (1 Viewer)

[Cruiserdrew]

So I was in the Airgas store today, they sell Miller and Lincoln welders. It wasn't busy and the owner went through the Millermatic 210 and the Lincoln 215 side by side. I came away thinking the Lincoln was the better buy. I completely expected the opposite. The specs are essentailly the same, but the Lincoln has a better gun and the comsumables are much cheaper. How about a reality check here? I know basically nothing, except that I am buying a welder in the next 30 days, likely one of these 2. If there is some magic advantage to the Miller I'll buy that, but based on what I saw. I really liked the Lincoln. The real advantage in seems to be in the gun. The Shop guy suggested that if you bought the Miller, within 2 years you would be back buying the gun from the Lincoln.

BTW-the cost for each is the same within a few $$. I want enough welder to do 2 spring overs, and maybe some bumper/slider fab. I am not a commercial shop, but I like nice equiptment that works and you don't have to worry about. By the time you get out the door with a cylinder, you are spending $1700 or so.

I also noticed that used welding equiptment is basically not available, Luke Porter reccomended I get a Miller 185 (no longer made) but no one is getting rid of them.

 

[Cube Dweller]

I think the 210 series is overkill for what you'll be doing. I've never hit the duty cycle ceiling on my 175. And if you need to weld something structural thicker than 1/4", neither of us should be welding it, you should have a pro do it.

I bought my 175 for under $700, not including the bottle. Project #1 should be picking up some tubing and casters and building a cart.

Edit: And that was new, off ebay. From a real store in Oregon that also sells online. I don't know about Lincoln, but with Miller, if there's a warranty issue, you take it to an authorized Miller warranty center, in our case, Airgas.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I think the 210 series is overkill for what you'll be doing.

.

You say this like that's a problem! I love overkill. Plus it comes on a cart that also holds the bottle. I agree that a 175 would fit my needs but, since you have one I need more..........

Seriously, thanks for the reply. I have accumulated a bunch of scrap to make some lawn art as I learn the ropes. Once it's going well, I have these killer 3/8 spring perches that I got from Luke/Roughstuff and a bunch of other bits to start building my '71. Please come over and help, or just eat donuts.

 

[Cube Dweller]

You say this like that's a problem! I love overkill. Plus it comes on a cart that also holds the bottle. I agree that a 175 would fit my needs but, since you have one I need more..........

Seriously, thanks for the reply. I have accumulated a bunch of scrap to make some lawn art as I learn the ropes. Once it's going well, I have these killer 3/8 spring perches that I got from Luke/Roughstuff and a bunch of other bits to start building my '71. Please come over and help, or just eat donuts.

Meh, I also have a Miller stick/TIG combo. ;p

Let me know, if I've got slack in the schedule I'm happy to stop by.

 

[Cube Dweller]

Oh, the 210 is also available from the resellers on ebay. We bought my pop's Miller Dynasty from one of them as well. That one was about $2100.

 

[sleeoffroad]

Andy, I bought two welders from these guys. If you are going to spend that kind of money look at the 251 down the page. Not the package with the spoolgun, but just the welder. It will be the last welder you buy. $1850 and you don't need a cart. Free shipping as well. Buy once and buy big. I know people will say you don't need it, but the incrementatl cost of going to the bigger ones are really not that much.

http://www.brwelder.com/indextemplate.cfm?file=shop/results.cfm&SubCategory=1

 

[Alz Toy]

At work we have both Miller and Lincoln welders. Since I spend 12hrs a day welding, you kind'a get a prefrence to what you like, kinda like Toy vs Jeep. Myself I like the Millers, as they seem to be more user friendly. I weld with an old CP 200, and it can lay some pretty beads. I take great pride in my ability to make good welds, as we are building consumer products that usually sells in the $1000's when all is said and done. What I have noticed about the Lincolns, they can also lay some pretty beads, but for lack of a better way of explaining it, they seem a little lazy in response ( to me ) compared to the Millers. If they wern't any good though, they wouldn't still be around. For my personal use, I bought a Hobart HH 180 ( w/gas ), and its done a GREAT job on everything I've asked it to do on my Cruiser. This includes SR, Scout p/s and eng/tc mounts. The more I use it, the more I like it. I also have an 'ol Lincoln 225 stick welder ( was my Dads, probly early '70's ), but have never used it ( never stick welded, wouldn't know where to start ). HTH, Al

 

[i4c4lo]

Andy,

I'd go over kill, you can always turn it down but if you buy the less powerful one, you can't turn it up. You will always find something to weld that is thicker than you wanted or if you mess up and gotta re-weld!


Like DesertDude says "cry about it once" - or Christo "it'll be the last welder you buy" - If you are going to do it right, do it right the first time - is what I say.


Amando

 

[Cruiserdrew]

There is another wrinkle to this. The 251 looks like it might blow my circuit! It can draw some serious amps. I think the 210/215 is where I'll start. If I need more, I'll sell the machine and buy another. Still leaning toward the Lincoln, but Miller owners are very loyal.

What have you been using Amando?

 

[Rich]

...The 251 looks like it might blow my circuit! It can draw some serious amps...

Don't let a circuit breaker, some wire, and an outlet hold you back! Have an electrician wire up a subpanel in the garage to run your welder and that new big 5hp compressor you're looking for.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Don't let a circuit breaker, some wire, and an outlet hold you back! Have an electrician wire up a subpanel in the garage to run your welder and that new big 5hp compressor you're looking for.

Funny how great minds think alike. My wife is planning new outdoor lights, back door lighting etc. I said fine as long as the electrician put a 50 amp sub-panel in the garage!

I was really maxing out my poor 2 HP compressor today. Running an air hammer it was cycling every 3-4 minutes. It is hard for me to let go of "free" though!

I seriously would like to go hog wild and get industrial compressor/welder/plasma etc, but then I wouldn't have any $$ for the real mods and fun.

 

[Cube Dweller]

Funny how great minds think alike. My wife is planning new outdoor lights, back door lighting etc. I said fine as long as the electrician put a 50 amp sub-panel in the garage!

I was really maxing out my poor 2 HP compressor today. Running an air hammer it was cycling every 3-4 minutes. It is hard for me to let go of "free" though!

I seriously would like to go hog wild and get industrial compressor/welder/plasma etc, but then I wouldn't have any $$ for the real mods and fun.

50A is not enough for a subpanel. My stick machine is rated at 50A. Go 100A on the sub, the cost is incremental.

 

[i4c4lo]

Andy,

I have a Miller 175 and I wish it was bigger, when I did the front bumper I was using 1/4" for the mounts and I had to do a double pass. I really like the welder its just there were times I wish I had a more powerful one. With your new "shop" we don't need to go to Mudraks!


Amando


PS
If I don't talk to you have fun at your "yearly" fishing trip!

 

[sleeoffroad]

I welded for years with the 251 on a 30 amp dryer circuit. Think I blew the fuse once. It only pulls that capacity if you are maxed out, which you will hardly be. This is like a plasma cutter. If you buy it with it's max capacity close to what you will do all the time, then you are running close to the performance edge of the machine.

If you get the 251, you will be welding in the lower 1/2 of it's capacity all the time. Kinda like sticking a 22RE in a 80. It will probably move it, but will be wrapped out

 

[Tigerstripe40]

Andy,

I have a Miller 175 and I wish it was bigger, when I did the front bumper I was using 1/4" for the mounts and I had to do a double pass. I really like the welder its just there were times I wish I had a more powerful one. With your new "shop" we don't need to go to Mudraks!
Amando
PS
If I don't talk to you have fun at your "yearly" fishing trip!

I don't have any problem welding 1/4" material with my MM175 when using .035 flux core.
Heck I don't even have to turn the voltage all the way up. When I do, I blow holes in it.

 

[honk]

I probably would have bought Lincoln over Miller but just then the Oregon online seller had a sale. I paid $1098. total for my Miller 210. No tax too.

In addition to that seller I can vouch for this one in Indiana: http://stores.ebay.com/Welding-Supplies-from-IOC

I've bought two other welders, three tanks, and several supply or equipment things from the guy and in every case delivery to my door within a few days, awesome pricing, and no tax to pay.

There's a lot to be said for dealing with your local supplier and in most things I do try to do that. But the price differences can be in the hundreds of dollars with welding gear.

Anyway, most everyone in the welding forums swears by IOC

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I probably would have bought Lincoln over Miller .....

Why? That is the question I am trying to get at.

I honestly think the gun probably is better on the Lincoln, but not in any way that would be meaningful to a home garage welder.

What about differences in the drive mechanism?

I appreciate all the replies. I got most of the old hardware off my frame, so I'll be welding it up soon! I got some kick a$$ stuff from Luke Porter and Roughstuff. Luke's power steering set up is sweet-I can't wait to get it welded on. I also have a growing scrap pile of steel to spend a few hours welding, before I go live.

 

[fj40charles]

Drew,

I can't vouch for Lincoln's welders since I've never used one..

I use a MM 210 at home and it works for me.... I know the 251 is nice, but for me, I rather save that money and put it towards a TIG welder. If you plan on doing lots of spray transfer welding, then get the MM 251.

Here is a thread comparing Lincoln 215 and MM 210
http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/showthread.php?t=20433&highlight=lincoln+215

If you do get the MM210, be sure to get .030 wire (Hobart HB-28 .030 wire) They say the MM210 is designed for .030 wire and it is supposed to be better.
http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/showthread.php?t=20531&highlight=millermatic+210

Here is a thread I started when I was looking to buy a used MM251 some time ago.
http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/showthread.php?p=227350#post227350

Lincoln and Miller are both good welder. I think it comes down to personal perference.

I like Miller and I think it has a better resale value.

This is a good place for info, but they are pro Miller.
http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/

Charles

 

[LukeZero]

I agree that Miller welders are a little more user friendly at first, but I have to say that once you get the hang of what you're doing, Lincolns have more flexibility. I have an ancient, 3 phase Lincoln Weld-Pak. 100% duty cycle, currently running .035 wire with Argon/CO2 mix. I can weld just about anything. Watch auctions. If you're lucky, you can catch an industrial sized, industrial strength welder for cheap.

 

[fj40charles]

I agree that Miller welders are a little more user friendly at first, but I have to say that once you get the hang of what you're doing, Lincolns have more flexibility. I have an ancient, 3 phase Lincoln Weld-Pak. 100% duty cycle, currently running .035 wire with Argon/CO2 mix. I can weld just about anything. Watch auctions. If you're lucky, you can catch an industrial sized, industrial strength welder for cheap.

Except that most people will not have 3 phase power at home.