minimum rollcage tube size (1 Viewer)

[Isotel]

Red line's Circle Track Cages are all HREW .095, That is the Standard for the Racing Circuits that use our Cages..

on our 40 cages we will be going with .120 HREW with a DOM Upgrade option.


Remember that Cage Design, Gussets, and Triangulation are more important than the DOM vs Hrew Debate..

 

[muddogbob]

I'm currently building my internal cage out of 1.75" .120 wall DOM. I paid $3.95/ft here in the Seattle Jan of '08. The best price I could find on HREW was $2.95/ft.

 

[brokenparts]

wow u got a smoking deal...

 

[2badfjs]

Hmmmm, i get my 2" HREW in 20ft sticks .120 wall for just under $40. which is $2. per foot.
but, if you look at your invoice, the steel shop should have a weight on it. this is really how steel is sold.
so if a 20ft x 2" x .120 tube runs $40. and weighs 40lbs, $1.00 per lbs.
either way

as far as cages go.
i've been burning the candle at both ends and been working/installing a Metal tech cage for a friend in his 40.
the "A" pillars are DOM 2"X.120
the rest is HREW, but, the seams are not on the inside bends. this is a old cage so maybe Mark has changed his bending skillz since.

my .02

 

[Bret]

Definately call around and try to get a group buy together. It seems the breakover to the cheaper prices was 500 ft. We got a deal at $1.20/ft for HREW that was 1.75 X .120 in 20' sticks. But we had to buy 500' of it. We went to the yard and picked it up with a trailer so delivery wasn't charged either.

 

[PKP80]

I hope this is not hijacking the the thread but two questions.

1. Having read this thread so far, Is 4130 chromo completely unnecessary for an internal 80 cage? I was shooting for 2" x.25 chromoly. Yeah I know $$$ so hope 2"x.25 DOM will be sufficient.

2. If you add cage to body gussets (similar to prerunner style trucks) down the Apiller, how does that affect the body and bending in a roll over? I'd imagine that you'd get virtually No bend in the A piller (just a matter of changing the front wind shield. I am planning on a 3 way gussets two down the A-pillers to the cage and open across the whole top roof line (3/16ths plate dimple died)

 

[Mace]

I hope this is not hijacking the the thread but two questions.

1. Having read this thread so far, Is 4130 chromo completely unnecessary for an internal 80 cage? I was shooting for 2" x.25 chromoly. Yeah I know $$$ so hope 2"x.25 DOM will be sufficient.

2. If you add cage to body gussets (similar to prerunner style trucks) down the Apiller, how does that affect the body and bending in a roll over? I'd imagine that you'd get virtually No bend in the A piller (just a matter of changing the front wind shield. I am planning on a 3 way gussets two down the A-pillers to the cage and open across the whole top roof line (3/16ths plate dimple died)

1. Oh my god yes... If you want chromoly you can actually go to a 1.75 x .090. You gotta remember that the 80's roof adds a lot of protection. Personaly I would do 1.75 x.120 HREW (or dom). It will give you more routing ability and be less intrusive..

2. If you have a significant roll the windshield will basically never fit well again. I would not bother, but that is me..

 

[4rnr]

DOM has a higher tensile strength. I have seen alot of hrew (perticularly sliders) than dent, crack and bend to the point where you cant open the doors.

Whether the entire cage needs to be DOM....probably not but Iam glad mine is. And if you spend time in big rocks I would want DOM sliders and rear bumper at least. That is of course if you arent planning on rolling hard in large rocks. I wheel Illinois style so basically I just lay down in soft mud. But I am all DOM mainly because Im an exo over a 4door and that forces a design that is "strength challenged"

 

[rondog]

DOM vs. HREW

I agree with 4rnr with DOM being a stronger tube, it seems to be that much more durable which makes it worth the price to me! I guess thats why people think my prices are high, thats all I use is DOM.

DOM has a higher tensile strength. I have seen alot of hrew (perticularly sliders) than dent, crack and bend to the point where you cant open the doors.

Whether the entire cage needs to be DOM....probably not but Iam glad mine is. And if you spend time in big rocks I would want DOM sliders and rear bumper at least. That is of course if you arent planning on rolling hard in large rocks. I wheel Illinois style so basically I just lay down in soft mud. But I am all DOM mainly because Im an exo over a 4door and that forces a design that is "strength challenged"

 

[The Dude]

Would be cool to have a coloured cage in the Tech section with heading showing material choices, dimensions, wall thickness.

And add lower links along with it with vehicle weights.

This would be a very good idea. It would be nice to have a listing of terminology with it as well. A hoop, B hoop stringers V bars ect...

Maybe a couple different cages as well. Short, medium and family.

I would sure appreciate something like that as I have very little knowledge on the subject.

 

[lcwizard]

I've probably built 500 cages, mostly for land cruisers. I have never had a failure with the HREW tubing. I have literally made thousands, perfhaps tens of thousands of bends with that tubing from 1" to 2" diameters and never seen a tube split no matter the location of the seam. I have, however seen DOM fail during bending. The reason is the DOM proces work hardens the material making it less elastic. Most people are unaware that it is available in a "normalized" condition, or stress relieved. I have seen 1 1/2 DOM tear on the outside radius during bending. CroMo is also prone to this. If you use either DOM or CroMo be sure to specify "normalized" tubing. Most yards only bring in standard DOM so they will probably need to order it.
Oh and by the way I usually stick to 2" .120 wall for a truck as heavy as a cruiser. It's not worth the wieght savings to go undersize. A basic cage would use less than 60 feet of tube . An elaborate cage, seatcradles, dash bars, gussets all over, would exceed 100 feet. 100 feet 2" 120 is about 240 lb, 100 feet
1 3/4 is about 210, and 1 1/2 about 180lb

 

[Medusa]

I was shooting for 2" x.25 chromoly. Yeah I know $$$ so hope 2"x.25 DOM will be sufficient.

I am curious...how do you plan on bending 2" x .250 tube (forget chromoly, even mild steel)?????

A lot of the discussion above has focused on the HREW vs DOM debate. IMO more consideration ought to be give to wall thickness and strength vs weight tradeoffs. For a chassis I think the best combination is 1.5" with a 0.156 wall. I think a cage or roll bar in 1.750 x 0.156 would also work well. For parts that take a real beating (e.g., sliders) I have been using 1.75 DOM with a 0.188 wall. It has, however, been difficult finding shops able and/or willing to bend that thick of tube. LT and Tydes are the only two friends I still have after that kind of bending request

 

[4rnr]

I've probably built 500 cages, mostly for land cruisers. I have never had a failure with the HREW tubing. I have literally made thousands, perfhaps tens of thousands of bends with that tubing from 1" to 2" diameters and never seen a tube split no matter the location of the seam. I have, however seen DOM fail during bending. The reason is the DOM proces work hardens the material making it less elastic. Most people are unaware that it is available in a "normalized" condition, or stress relieved. I have seen 1 1/2 DOM tear on the outside radius during bending. CroMo is also prone to this. If you use either DOM or CroMo be sure to specify "normalized" tubing. Most yards only bring in standard DOM so they will probably need to order it.
Oh and by the way I usually stick to 2" .120 wall for a truck as heavy as a cruiser. It's not worth the wieght savings to go undersize. A basic cage would use less than 60 feet of tube . An elaborate cage, seatcradles, dash bars, gussets all over, would exceed 100 feet. 100 feet 2" 120 is about 240 lb, 100 feet
1 3/4 is about 210, and 1 1/2 about 180lb

So are you claiming that HREW is in someway superior to DOM or Cromo??

 

[lcwizard]

no, just a better all around material. It does have a lower tensile strength but it doesn't work harden like moly so it will go far longer without cracking. A moly chassis should be replaced in three or four seasons less if it's run a lot. The material work hardens with vibration and cracks. I see a lot of people weld moly with standard steel wire so the weld points offer no advantage. To handle moly correctly tig or pulsed mig is the only way to go. Along with the proper wire and gas. Then to get the true advantage moly offers the whole part needs to be annealed or the areas near the weld are brittle.
DOM is a goog choice for a guy with Mig capabilities as long as you specify
"normalized" DOM when you order. Factor in the cost the the gain is little if the HREW does the job well.
I've built cages from simple offroad to full race quarter mile cars and seen them roll dozens of times, never any failures

So are you claiming that HREW is in someway superior to DOM or Cromo??

 

[PKP80]

I am curious...how do you plan on bending 2" x .250 tube (forget chromoly, even mild steel)?????

Brute Muscle strength...I've been hitting the gym real hard and eating all my veggies, lol.

Hydraulically via some fancy overpriced bender. I'm learning about bending, a friend is instructing me on the how to.

 

[awp_cruiser]

muddogbob,

I am in Seattle. Where did you get tube from?

Thanks!

 

[Medusa]

Hydraulically via some fancy overpriced bender

Please let us know when you identify this bender.

 

[Mace]

Please let us know when you identify this bender.

Jack, I have used a JD Squared manual bender with a long ass bar to bend both 1.5" .25 wall and 2" .25 wall. Both bends were ~45*, the bender did NOT like it but it did work.. The biggest thing with the manual benders is making the stand sturdy enough.. These benders can bend the tubing, but honestly over time they will break. They are not rated for that kind of abuse.

 

[Isotel]

Redline's Bender is up to the task , but 2" .25 wall Chromo is just Silly.. Bigger is not always better.

 

[awp_cruiser]

This will be longish - and I hope not to much of a hi-jack but related -

So I am ready to start my cage building project. I've read a lot of threads here and on Pirate. There seems to be no end to the discussion or debate. The most frustrating thing is the slang vs the techincal.

Based on what I've read I've decided to build my cage with the following:

1.75x.120 DOM for the main structure.
1.75x.095 HREW for infill, diagonals, spreaders, etc.

So I go to get a price and source the material. I call the large and very reputable source in Seattle. They don't carry DOM but they can get it. They refer me to their supplier and tell me to pick what I want and let them know and they'd price and order it for me.

Earle M. Jorgensen Company ® - Products - Stock List

Now... DOM or Seamless? 1010 or 1020? Or is it A513? Normalized is which? I am not looking for a chemical brakdown of these materials, but what is it I am looking for again?!!

Then HREW... 1010 is the stuff I am looking for?

Specifically, in techincal terms, does anyone have a suggestion as to what material I should order?

Let's discuss the tube, thickness, and design later.


Thanks!