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Ok I get it now. I had been using a cheap K40, but eventually ripped it off on the highway. Very poor signal, but probably more due to wear I mounted it. Thanks for the great perspective and advice guys.
Military CB Whip Antennas
- Thread starter Iceaxe
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Yeah, it's hard to get a good spot that's high enough, low enough, and still puts out a low SWR signal. That's why I like mine mounted down on the top of the bumper part of the ARB.
Now, the ARB has built in antenna mounting points, the drilled tabs on the upper crossbar. In the US, we think of them as lighting mounts. But if you look at a lot of Aussie trucks, that's where the antenna goes. Another reason I like down low and all the way to one side is it takes it out of the direct field of vision. But the mount on one of those tabs would actually be better because the hood acts sorta like a ground plane and helps flatten the signal out toward the horizon a little better.
The other good spot is around the rear hatch, Several vendors offer mounts that will slip in back there and put the antenna relatively high, but probably not as good a signal as upfront bouncing off the hood.
I think the radiation pattern for mounting the antenna up front or rear hatch would make it spread out front/back more than the sides. So it would not be a uniform one.
Probably a magnet mount in the middle of the hood would be a better compromise. Low enough so it doesn't hit trees or other obstacles, has plenty of real estate for ground plane and if the whip is high enough it should stick out above the roof line.
Probably a magnet mount in the middle of the hood would be a better compromise. Low enough so it doesn't hit trees or other obstacles, has plenty of real estate for ground plane and if the whip is high enough it should stick out above the roof line.
Forgot to mention antenna gait makes a difference too in the way the wave are propagated. Flat terrain vs obstacles/hills.
If you travel in a group and your antenna is mounted to the rear of your vehicle, it probably makes sense to have it mounted to the rear of your vehicle to be able to reach out toward the front of the pack, as the car ground plane will help in radiating that way.
As mentioned many times by many people, the middle of the car would be best for a more uniform/equal distribution pattern.
If you travel in a group, see what the others are running. CB vs HAM. Most HAM users still run CB's. It makes no sense to have a different radio than what the others are using.
If you travel alone, a HAM would be a much better choice as you can be heard many miles away using repeaters.
Rant time:
I don't like the fact that on CB's here in US we don't have access to FM as the Europeans have.
They are still limited to 4W of transmission power but the quality of transmission/reception is far superior to our AM band. Same frequency, but FM modulation.
I really wish the FCC would revisit the CB 11m spectrum and allow FM use along with a slight increase in transmission power, 6-15W.
You can import some European radios, but they will have the same use as a brick here in US. There's no point for imports, unless a lot of people use them (illegally still).
I just don't want to go the HAM way (yet) as I really think the rules are stupid of rising it. It's easy to pass the technician level exam and get your license, but what's the point?
Many people have passed the exam and still don't know anything about the radios they are using and the general HAM practice. They're just legal.
HAM call signs are just plain nuts. I don't want to broadcast my call sign every 10 min as per rules. I need to know what the traffic is like, or which way to turn, or simply communicate with my spotter. I don't use HAM and have no intention on using it soon for those reasons. Not even illegally.
If you travel in a group and your antenna is mounted to the rear of your vehicle, it probably makes sense to have it mounted to the rear of your vehicle to be able to reach out toward the front of the pack, as the car ground plane will help in radiating that way.
As mentioned many times by many people, the middle of the car would be best for a more uniform/equal distribution pattern.
If you travel in a group, see what the others are running. CB vs HAM. Most HAM users still run CB's. It makes no sense to have a different radio than what the others are using.
If you travel alone, a HAM would be a much better choice as you can be heard many miles away using repeaters.
Rant time:
I don't like the fact that on CB's here in US we don't have access to FM as the Europeans have.
They are still limited to 4W of transmission power but the quality of transmission/reception is far superior to our AM band. Same frequency, but FM modulation.
I really wish the FCC would revisit the CB 11m spectrum and allow FM use along with a slight increase in transmission power, 6-15W.
You can import some European radios, but they will have the same use as a brick here in US. There's no point for imports, unless a lot of people use them (illegally still).
I just don't want to go the HAM way (yet) as I really think the rules are stupid of rising it. It's easy to pass the technician level exam and get your license, but what's the point?
Many people have passed the exam and still don't know anything about the radios they are using and the general HAM practice. They're just legal.
HAM call signs are just plain nuts. I don't want to broadcast my call sign every 10 min as per rules. I need to know what the traffic is like, or which way to turn, or simply communicate with my spotter. I don't use HAM and have no intention on using it soon for those reasons. Not even illegally.
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Gotta agree with you here. The 4 watt AM or SSB only limits on US CB are really pretty silly. The capability is easily available, as similar service elsewhere are more generous, even if many require a license, which was droped from the US csheme back in the 70s. I suspect a lot of the remaining restruictions are because it is an unlicensed service.
As for CB-band illegality, I'd put that -- within reason -- in the ethical realm of going over the speed limit, as do many. It is nice to have the capability to run up to 25 watts in any emission mode. Even better to use the lost freqs interleaved with the official FCC-approved ones, which really have no other use; one does have to be cautious in reaching down to 26 mHz (other services may be interfered with) or up to between 30 and 32 mHz (the military doesn't like you playing in their park, even though they rarely use it anymore). And stay away from the 10 meter Ham band, too many jawboners there anyway. But those sort of frequency agile features are available if one pursues the matter. In a true emergency, anything that works generally won't be held against you and it is peace of mind in the backcountry to know you have some extra punch and extra options if you need them. Otherwise, keep it inside the outer boundaries of the CB band and don't use excess power and my conscience would be clear is all I'm saying
HAM stuff is a bit of a different kettle of fish. It's not just a license for you, but as part of a service to the public. And there are restrictions about what it can be used for that range from serious to silly. I've always had too many other hobbies, including other radio ones, to pursue my license. Maybe someday.
I have thoroughly enjoyed getting to know my HAM radio. For a total of what ~$10-$15 which isn't even for the license, its for the group providing the exam (IIRC) it has been a lot of fun, way better communication, etc. Yes, i still have my CB set up in the truck, but must all of our runs have been all HAM tech/operators so why bother turning it on.
HAM was a dying hobby (internet, social media, etc) until the recent resurgence it saw with the off road users. I have never met a young HAM operator (home based), all of them are old since the time before the internet. It came out with the need to communicate with other people at long distances.
Now that communication can be done much easily at a lot more conveniently (you can get in touch with anyone at your own pace/time, you don't have to be present at the time of transmission - just leave a message off line, email, twit, etc), the need to use radio waves locally or internationally is non existent.
With the internet you don't need a huge antenna setup, worry about electrical wires around your house, you can even do it on your phone.
Yes, there is a provision under the HAM laws that an unlicensed person can use the service in case of an emergency. You get stranded, it is an emergency. I still don't have a HAM radio, even for "emergency" situations.
Where I go wheeling there's not that much of a need for it anyway.
I see it as an old fart technology which either needs to go away, or simply be unlicensed (certain bands).
Taxis and towing truck companies all use it (2m and 70cm bands). Those frequencies will get crowded soon too.
As I said, I would like to see a change in CB frequency modulation and maybe just a little more power, not much. Or open 2m band to public use (unlicensed).
I'm not against the fee $10- $15 for the license (good for 10 years). It would be the same to me if it was $0.25 for 10 years. It's the license issue that gets to me and the stupid identification rule.
It sounds like an AA meeting: "Hi, my name is Slim Shady and I'm an alcoholic (HAM operator), located behind the third bush on the left. Just checking to see if my 2L (m) is strong enough. The weather here is great, just perfect for another beer. Over"
Now that communication can be done much easily at a lot more conveniently (you can get in touch with anyone at your own pace/time, you don't have to be present at the time of transmission - just leave a message off line, email, twit, etc), the need to use radio waves locally or internationally is non existent.
With the internet you don't need a huge antenna setup, worry about electrical wires around your house, you can even do it on your phone.
Yes, there is a provision under the HAM laws that an unlicensed person can use the service in case of an emergency. You get stranded, it is an emergency. I still don't have a HAM radio, even for "emergency" situations.
Where I go wheeling there's not that much of a need for it anyway.
I see it as an old fart technology which either needs to go away, or simply be unlicensed (certain bands).
Taxis and towing truck companies all use it (2m and 70cm bands). Those frequencies will get crowded soon too.
As I said, I would like to see a change in CB frequency modulation and maybe just a little more power, not much. Or open 2m band to public use (unlicensed).
I'm not against the fee $10- $15 for the license (good for 10 years). It would be the same to me if it was $0.25 for 10 years. It's the license issue that gets to me and the stupid identification rule.
It sounds like an AA meeting: "Hi, my name is Slim Shady and I'm an alcoholic (HAM operator), located behind the third bush on the left. Just checking to see if my 2L (m) is strong enough. The weather here is great, just perfect for another beer. Over"
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Technician test is fairly easy. Harder part is usually convincing your trail buddies to follow suit.
Strap an outboard motor to your spare tire and run a marine VHF radio. Marine VHF is clear and has a decent punch. I have one in my boat and they really work.
The problem is they are not supposed to have wheels under them.....
The problem is they are not supposed to have wheels under them.....
Yep, that's always been my main issue. I generally have had CB and GMRS available and now the wife carries the iPhone (when you have an emergency within cell tower range). If others on the trail had more interest, I'd find my way to a ham license pretty quickly.
Strap an outboard motor to your spare tire and run a marine VHF radio. Marine VHF is clear and has a decent punch. I have one in my boat and they really work.
The problem is they are not supposed to have wheels under them.....
Yeah, good point CDan. Other services have access to more reliable transmission modes, it is time we entered the 21st century here for CB. The FCC seems to worry more about pleasure craft operators than about truckdrivers and the rest of us and I think we've got as good a case as anyone with a boat. You can get yourself into trouble a long way from help in an 80 pretty darn easy...and they don't float nearly as well as most boats (except for that guy in the video from Australia, who might indeed qualify for a marine license
).I wonder what an old Amphicar transplanted onto an 80 drivetrain would look like? It probably would NOT float any longer, but the approach and departure angles would be good and I would think it WOULD qualify you for a marine license.
The FCC doesn't force all those boat owners to PROVE they can float, only that they look like they could float.
The only fly in that ointment is marine VHF is internationally mandated for maritime use only. The FCC would not be able to override that to let us put wheels under them.....
It is actually illegal to key the mike if the boat is sitting on the ramp. It has to be in the water......
It is actually illegal to key the mike if the boat is sitting on the ramp. It has to be in the water......
Well, everyone has opinions....
I think you may be confusing CB with GMRS here. CB is unlicensed, so no cost, and down below 30 mHz. GMRS has a small fee attached (what I think you were referring to here) and is in the UHF range (~460 mHz).
Part of the issue here are the different propagation characteristics. Most of the time, CB goes so far and the low wattage helps keep folks from interfering with each other. However, there are times when you can literally work the world with the allowed 4 watts in AM. UHF has none of that, being almost exclusively line of sight (and we won't worry about the small details of when it isn't). 25 watts in AM on a CB could really cause a lot of griping when the sun spots are kicking up as people walk all over each other
.FM is not so bodacious most of the time, although there are times in the sunspot cycle when it leaps about similarly to AM on the CB freqs. Because of the FM capture effect, you don't get as much of the walking over problem, as you usually hear the stronger signal only . There are still potential interference issues, just not so much as with AM.
So my take is they could go to 10 watts AM, and add FM (which isn't currently legal in the US) at 25 watts max with relatively little issue on the current CB freqs. More could be done with spectrum higher up, as the Family Radio Service and GMRS has proven.
As for no license, that I think is probably expecting too much in the present Age of Paranoia. I seriously doubt a terrorist would use a CB of any kind -- or worry about its legality, either -- but that won't keep the more paranoid in our government from wanting to know who every user is with a more capable system. I'm a skeptic of this, because it's a dumb and unworkable idea, but that doesn't mean it's not likely to be among the political playoffs on the table in enacting an improved CB service.
The only fly in that ointment is marine VHF is internationally mandated for maritime use only. The FCC would not be able to override that to let us put wheels under them.....
It is actually illegal to key the mike if the boat is sitting on the ramp. It has to be in the water......
Oh, well, you can see how I haven't applied for my marine license yet.
But there's still hope for that guy motoring up that stream in Australia if he brings his act here, if he's prepared to become a US citizen, etc most likely, too....
I am not confusing the two, I specifically referred to 11m/CB radio.
Here you just repeated what I said and I totally agree with.
Allow just a little more power on 11m (I know it has a tendency bleed over and interfere. There are people running up to 2000W of power on 11m (I saw one).
Allow the use of FM on 11m/CB freq.
And open up some HAM frequency bands (2m and or 10m). Lot's of people use them illegally with the use of "import" radios many watts of power plus amps.
Once you legalize something, people lose their interest in abusing it.
2m band in my view should not be licensed. There is no reason for it.
Oh, well, you can see how I haven't applied for my marine license yet.
But there's still hope for that guy motoring up that stream in Australia if he brings his act here, if he's prepared to become a US citizen, etc most likely, too....
FCC no longer requires station licensing for marine VHF. I had one of the last licenses issued before the requirement was dropped....
Back in the day it was fun to jack with the Coasties when they would do vessel inspections. They got all excited that they were going to bust a guy for unlicensed radio equipment and I'd grab the paper and crap 'em out......
Part of the issue here are the different propagation characteristics. Most of the time, CB goes so far and the low wattage helps keep folks from interfering with each other. However, there are times when you can literally work the world with the allowed 4 watts in AM. UHF has none of that, being almost exclusively line of sight (and we won't worry about the small details of when it isn't). 25 watts in AM on a CB could really cause a lot of griping when the sun spots are kicking up as people walk all over each other
FM is not so bodacious most of the time, although there are times in the sunspot cycle when it leaps about similarly to AM on the CB freqs. Because of the FM capture effect, you don't get as much of the walking over problem, as you usually hear the stronger signal only . There are still potential interference issues, just not so much as with AM.
So my take is they could go to 10 watts AM, and add FM (which isn't currently legal in the US) at 25 watts max with relatively little issue on the current CB freqs. More could be done with spectrum higher up, as the Family Radio Service and GMRS has proven.
It's hard to find smaller CB radios that offer SSB but you are legal to broadcast with 12 watts in SSB. It makes a big difference and the airways are usually clear since very few people use SSB.
Yes. That's the good and the bad news in now sentence.
While SSB is better, it's also bad since very few to no people use it.
Just run 2m simplex illegally. No one will bust you on the trail for doing it.