Michelin Defender LTX - what size? (1 Viewer)

[JohnPW]

2016 LC, stock Dunlops are worn out at 43k miles. Pretty certain I’m going with Michelin Defender LTX, trying to determine size. My truck is DD and my tow vehicle for a @3500lb boat. Possible larger boat at some point although nothing over @5500lb. OEM front spacer, Firestone rear airbags, otherwise stock truck. All street use excpt occasional camping trips, dirt roads, farm roads, occasional dove fields. So far the lousy Dunlops have not been a problem for my very light off-road uses. I’m in Florida so rain performance is key, no snow to worry about.

Considering:
285/60/18XL stock size. Pro’s: available in XL, can buy only four & keep unused Dunlop spare. Con: the tire looks small & I would prefer taller from a looks standpoint.

P275/65/18: Pro’s: 0.6 taller. Slightly narrower, taller tire might give a slight mileage benefit? CON: have to buy 5. Lower max load although still exceeds my needs. Not sure if 0.6” taller would be noticeable, even to me.

LT285/65/18: better looking, tougher tire, better load capability although P rated tires are fine for my uses. Cons: weight, mileage, expensive especially buying 5.

I’m over thinking this...anyone have suggestions or opinions? Thanks in advance

 

[stonepa]

I run the standard size on my LC as it fits my use case for this vehicle. They tow just fine.

 

[TeCKis300]

The LTX is a great tire with polish and performance fitting of a highly developed vehicle. Arguably an industry standard.

Personally, if you're looking for an upgrade, why compromise on a key dimension affecting major performance traits? In day to day use, even more aggressive use, it's rare that we are challenged for clearance or straight line traction. Yet I think many people do approach the edge of cornering traction and braking. Definitely so in emergency maneuvers. Being a large and heavy vehicle that needs to turn and brake in daily use, I'd say width is more important than people are acknowledging, and downsizing that dimension from stock is questionable.

To that point, I'd say to run stock size over a 275/65.

If you do want an upgrade, LT285/65r18 would be a great fitment. Yes, it's got stiffer sidewalls, but that may complement it being a larger overall diameter and sidewall height should mitigate ride impacts to a degree. The 2016s have really low gearing in the bottom gears, and you may find the larger diameter to have positive benefits to overall gearing as described by others.

 

[JohnPW]

The LTX is a great tire with polish and performance fitting of a highly developed vehicle. Arguably an industry standard.

Personally, if you're looking for an upgrade, why compromise on a key dimension affecting major performance traits? In day to day use, even more aggressive use, it's rare that we are challenged for clearance or straight line traction. Yet I think many people do approach the edge of cornering traction and braking. Definitely so in emergency maneuvers. Being a large and heavy vehicle that needs to turn and brake in daily use, I'd say width is more important than people are acknowledging, and to downsize that dimension from stock is questionable.

To that point, I'd say to run stock size over a 275/65.

If you do want an upgrade, LT285/65r18 would be a great fitment. Yes, it's got stiffer sidewalls, but that may complement it being a larger overall diameter and sidewall height should mitigate ride impacts to a degree. The 2016s have really low gearing in the bottom gears, and you may find the larger diameter to have positive benefits to overall gearing as described by others.

Thanks for a well reasoned reply. Does anyone have a feel for how much of a mileage penalty a LT285/65/18 Michelin Defender will have versus P rated Dunlops? 51 lb per corner vs 40?

I wonder about ride quality of an LT as well, although I’ve run the Dunlops at 37psi To get rid of some of the squishiness. Any thoughts?

 

[mooneywa]

I have the stock size LTX on my '17 200. I, like you, am rarely in a serious off-road situation, want good road performance, good performance on dirt/farm roads and hunting access, and also tow a boat occasionally. I wouldn't hesitate to get them again as they are wonderful. They are safe and predictable on the highway and have a super quiet ride. I pull a 4600lb dry weight boat on a 1500 lb trailer and while it's only for occasional trips between storage and the ramp (it's docked mostly when we use it), the 200 on those tires is great. Slick boat ramps are no problem and the one time we had to launch on a super sketchy ramp that was dirt for a ways until it turned into concrete deeper we had no issues. On my '15 200 I had KO2s and I spend so much time on the highway, I couldn't justify the noise with the added tread on the new 200 so I ended up with the LTXs. Hope that helps.

 

[Madtiger]

Thanks for a well reasoned reply. Does anyone have a feel for how much of a mileage penalty a LT285/65/18 Michelin Defender will have versus P rated Dunlops? 51 lb per corner vs 40?

I wonder about ride quality of an LT as well, although I’ve run the Dunlops at 37psi To get rid of some of the squishiness. Any thoughts?

Not all 285/65/18 are the same size: LT285/65/18 + 18” stock rims and KDSS

I have stock sized KO2. Spare is factory tire.

 

[JohnPW]

Not all 285/65/18 are the same size: LT285/65/18 + 18” stock rims and KDSS

I have stock sized KO2. Spare is factory tire.

This raises another (probably silly) question: I have assumed if I went with stock sized Michelins I could keep my Dunlop spare. But given that each brand seems slightly different in size for the same spec, would it be bad to run a Dunlop spare in a long trip if I had to? I know it’s not an issue with 2WD cars (some have doughnut spares), but any concerns with a different brand spare on this full time 4WD vehicle?

 

[Sandroad]

I’ve run the 275/65-18 for the last 45,000 miles and love them. If I do ever wear them out, I’m going with stock size next time. I’d recommend either over the heavy E rated tires unless you need them. And, either of the P rated tires I mentioned are fine for your towing needs. I tow a 3500lb trailer with no tire issues.

To your spare question......get 5 new tires and do a 5 tire rotation every oil change. That way you’ll always have just the right spare ready to go. One last point.....the 275 Michelin is the same width tread actually hitting the ground as the 285 Dunlop! So you lose nothing in contact patch with the 275 LTX. Of course the 285 LTX is 10mm wider.

One last last point. Yes it’s bad to run 1 very different tire for more than emergency use, even if the same size. Don’t do that on a long trip.

 

[Madtiger]

This raises another (probably silly) question: I have assumed if I went with stock sized Michelins I could keep my Dunlop spare. But given that each brand seems slightly different in size for the same spec, would it be bad to run a Dunlop spare in a long trip if I had to? I know it’s not an issue with 2WD cars (some have doughnut spares), but any concerns with a different brand spare on this full time 4WD vehicle?

usually the big companies sizes are similar. It is the smaller tire companies that have different specs, such as Falkens and Cooper.

 

[bloc]

The very small difference in diameter between different brands of a given size tire shouldn't be a problem even for a long trip. Yes we have a limited slip center diff but it is more than capable of dealing with that diameter difference. The advantage to having five of the exact same tire is being able to do 5-tire rotations and effectively get more wear out of a set. Alternately, if you are worn, say, 2/3 through their life, and get a flat requiring replacement, you can now just run the four 2/3 tires and leave the new one under the back as a spare, to put back into the 5-tire rotation when you wear the other 4 out. If you have to replace 1 tire out of 4, when you wear out the other three your newer one still has 2/3 tread left. A hypothetical.. but 5-tire really is the way to go to optimize things.

One potential issue with 5-tire rotations though.. being under the truck for 100k miles before I got it and dropped it into the mix meant my spare wheel had some scuff marks on it where the rubber pads mashed dirt and sand into the face. Basically one wheel didn't look new like the others.

Note that 285/65/18 is ONLY available in a LT-Metric tire load range E. This is a very stiff, very heavy tire, requiring roughly 10psi more than stock. I found even brand new stock shocks really struggled to control these things between the extra mass and additional Tire Spring Rate. Also I went straight from an easy 18mpg on stock P285/60/18 to usually 14mpg on the freeway with the 285/65 KO2s, same driving conditions. You'd assume tire diameter was the cause here, but that's not the case. It's the construction. Unhappy with the ride quality I moved to an even taller (slightly) P-metric 285/70/17 and now easily get 17 if not 18mpg.

Those LT tires require more cold inflation pressure specifically because there is more internal friction.. the increased pressure is to keep the heat within the tire at a manageable level. Even still, there is more rolling resistance as a price to be paid for the extra toughness, and that will impact mileage.

 

[TeCKis300]

I agree that within a margin, different height tires can be used in a pinch. It's really about continuous load and heat. Larger differences require driving at lower speeds to avoid the diffs from working too hard. In other AWD models I've played with that have staggered tire sizes, the general goal was within 3% diameter for daily use. On occasion, with heavier duty cruiser drivertrains, something like 5% is probably just fine.

Note that with tires, not all are made equal. In general, LT-E will be stiffer, but there's a spectrum. One harsh riding LT-E does not mean all other brands and models ride equally harsh. KO2s are some of the more aggressive ATs out there. Even in P-metric, they win no favors for ride quality. That is the trade for a tougher carcass. Some of the better riding aggressive ATs are Toyo AT3s and Falken AT3Ws. Michelin LTXs ride better still.

My parents have LTXs LR-Es on an otherwise stock GX470 (desperate for tires and that's all the tire center had in stock). I've put tons of miles on this car with stock tires, and was pleasantly surprised that the LTX LT-E in stock size ride reasonable well. On the flip side, my previous LX470 that I had 3 different tire sets, which I sold to my brother when I stepped into the 200-seires. My brother put KO2s in 285/65r18s LT-E on her. They are uncomfortably harsh riding and the noisiest tires I've experienced in that car. I'll say it's not my cup of tea for whatever off-road talents they have that I may use less than 1% of the time.

 

[Madtiger]

Question for you guys.......differences in tire diameter / rotation.......i am more concern about traction control being overly active. For example, lets say that you have the smaller tire on the passenger rear tire. As you make a right turn or go around corner, that small tire will spin much faster, resulting in A-TRAC to intervene??

 

[gaijin]

Thanks for a well reasoned reply. Does anyone have a feel for how much of a mileage penalty a LT285/65/18 Michelin Defender will have versus P rated Dunlops? 51 lb per corner vs 40?

I wonder about ride quality of an LT as well, although I’ve run the Dunlops at 37psi To get rid of some of the squishiness. Any thoughts?

The RCTIP (Recommended Cold Tire Inflation Pressure) for the LT285/65R18/E 125/122R Michelin Defender LTX M/S tires on your 2016 LC200 is 42psi F/R.

HTH

 

[TeCKis300]

I would recommend an RCTIP of 37psi F/R for a LT285/65R18. Derived for an LX, which is functionally the same 200-series that is likened to a heavier curb weight trim. No reason to unduly suffer a harsher ride.

 

[JohnPW]

This is all very helpful. I’m leaning towards stock size Defenders. Interested in feedback from anyone with experience with the LT-E 285/65/18 Michelin Defender LTX in terms of ride harshness and mpg hit versus stock. If it’s as big of a ride & mpg hit as KO2’s or other serious off-road tires, then I’ll definitely stick with the stock size.

 

[Borstar1]

I have the defender stock size xl tire now and really like it. I did have the 285/65/18 defender previously and like the stock size much better in terms of ride quality and acceleration/braking. There was a noticeable difference- I have a 2018 LC.

 

[bloc]

This is all very helpful. I’m leaning towards stock size Defenders. Interested in feedback from anyone with experience with the LT-E 285/65/18 Michelin Defender LTX in terms of ride harshness and mpg hit versus stock. If it’s as big of a ride & mpg hit as KO2’s or other serious off-road tires, then I’ll definitely stick with the stock size.

It is reasonable to assume something as road oriented as a LTX will do much better than a KO2 on mileage. It has a more rounded profile for aerodynamics, much smaller void spaces in the tread, and even it being quieter means less energy is wasted pushing it down the road. But when comparing P-metric to LT-metric the LT will lose on efficiency as the price to pay for the extra construction.
So no, if you went to a 285/65 LTX your mileage drop will likely be much less than mine was with the KO2s, but just know you don’t gain all that durability without some compromises.

 

[gaijin]

This is all very helpful. I’m leaning towards stock size Defenders. Interested in feedback from anyone with experience with the LT-E 285/65/18 Michelin Defender LTX in terms of ride harshness and mpg hit versus stock. If it’s as big of a ride & mpg hit as KO2’s or other serious off-road tires, then I’ll definitely stick with the stock size.

FYI, the RCTIP for the stock size 285/60R18/XL 120H Michelin Defender LTX tires on your LC200 is 33psi F/R - the same as the stock P285/60R18 tires.

HTH

 

[gaijin]

I would recommend an RCTIP of 37psi F/R for a LT285/65R18. Derived for an LX, which is functionally the same 200-series that is likened to a heavier curb weight trim. No reason to unduly suffer a harsher ride.

Following that faulty logic, all LC200 owners running stock P285/60R18 tires should ignore the recommended pressure that's on the door placard and reduce their cold tire pressure from the recommended 33psi to 28psi so as not to "unduly suffer a harsher ride." After all, an LX is the same as an LC, right? Man, those dumb Toyota engineers who come up with those crazy recommended cold tire pressures, am I right?

 

[TeCKis300]

Following that faulty logic, all LC200 owners running stock P285/60R18 tires should ignore the recommended pressure that's on the door placard and reduce their cold tire pressure from the recommended 33psi to 28psi so as not to "unduly suffer a harsher ride." After all, an LX is the same as an LC, right? Man, those dumb Toyota engineers who come up with those crazy recommended cold tire pressures, am I right?

Nope. That's not the same interpretation at all. There are base inflation pressures that one should not go below. For LT tires, that's ~35psi, even if load or weight requirements put it underneath that. Base pressure are also established with consideration for more than just load ratings.

You and I won't agree here and we've been debating this for awhile. My point is load rating is only one aspect for tire pressure tuning. It's a safe interpretation but not the only variable. You're an engineer. Interpreting engineering considerations from a singular vector would be myopic.

If a pressure for a given tire is safe for the heavier LX, there is absolutely zero reason it's not safe for the lighter LC.