Metal Particles In Transmission Fluid - Normal or Excessive?

[RWBeringer4x4]

Hey all -

In an effort to further pin down the rattle in my transmission

Original thread:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/608008-transmission-rattle.html

I changed the fluid this weekend to see how much metal was sitting on the drain plug. There was metal (see picture) but I'm not sure if this is considered NORMAL or if I should be looking for a new transmission.

Most of the metal was "dust" and felt like finely ground sand, couldn't really feel individual particules between my fingers.

There were some larger "chunks" that I could roll around between my fingers, still smaller than the head of a pin but granular enough that I could absolutely feel them.

I rotated through driving without my front/rear driveshafts this weekend. At this point, I have narrowed it down to something in the clutch/transmission assemblies, so I will need to drop the trans soon anyway.

Just wondering if I should expect to be replacing the transmission entirely, based on the amount of metal, or if this one is probably salvageable? No idea when the fluid was last changed - could have been a month ago right before I bought it, or 37 years ago...

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Bump for guesses or wild speculation...78 views and no thoughts?

 

[NikP]

That doesn't look to be excessive in my opinion. I'd like mine to look that clean.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

My concern is more the size of the chunks - at what point should metal shavings be a cause for concern? That picture doesn't show the really "big" chunks (still pretty small) but I read somewhere that if you can actually feel them rolling around in your fingers, they are too big, and you have a problem.

 

[edwjmcgrath]

Bump for guesses or wild speculation...78 views and no thoughts?

I wouldn't change it based on that. We all grind the gears occasionally. That doesn't look bad to me.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

I wouldn't change it based on that. We all grind the gears occasionally. That doesn't look bad to me.

SOMETHING, the transmission or clutch it seems like, already has a really nasty rattle in 3rd and 4th gear, original post below:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series...on-rattle.html

It shifts beautifully though! No idea what is going on, and I guess I wont know until I drop the transmission at this point.

So the question above still remains: what does a "big" hunk of metal have to look like before it is a cause for concern?

 

[reddingcruiser]

Yours looks pretty normal, but any piece that is looks like it "broke" off (one or more fractured faces) as opposed to looking like it has been "shaved" or "filed" off, is a pretty good rule of thumb to take a closer look. Just an opinion!

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Yours looks pretty normal, but any piece that is looks like it "broke" off (one or more fractured faces) as opposed to looking like it has been "shaved" or "filed" off, is a pretty good rule of thumb to take a closer look. Just an opinion!

To be honest, most of the chunks were too small to really discern whether they were fractured or sheared. Big enough to feel, mostly somewhat thin/sharp. There wasn't something like an entire gear tooth stuck to my drain.

I guess I'll just save my pennies and get a shop to do my clutch, throw-out bearing, rear main seal, transmission, and un-stick my T-case linkage all at once. At least when all is said and done, I wont have to be afraid of driving it!

 

[Cleg]

Looks normal. You may sometimes even see a flaked edge off of a gear the size of a fingernail clipping and it's not a disaster. I had a Jeep once (am I allowed to say that on this site?) that had a couple of rice grain sized chunks of chipped gear teeth that showed up on the magnet and drove it for years without any tranny problems.

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

That's good, guess I won't worry too much for the time being - though I am worried the rattle I'm hearing is a wobbling input shaft or sheered gears/a bad shift fork. Guess I'll find out soon enough!

 

[destin]

This might sound weird, and might not be your rattle.
But I Had a rattle That I ended up tracking downt to the clutch fork rubber boot retention plate.
( located on the out side of the bell housing, on the side the clutch fork makes contact to the slave rod )

Any way it has a small tin bit that holds the boot in place. Mine was missing one bolt, and the rubber boot slipped out enough where the clutch frk would rattle against the bell housing and the tin clutch boot retention plate under engine vibration etc.

A long shot but hey worth a look

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Destin - it might not be as long a shot as you think...I don't even have a shift fork boot, just a hole in the bell housing with the clutch fork sticking through it...

I don't want to get my hopes up too high since my shifter also vibrates like crazy with the rattle, but it is definitely worth looking in to!

Thanks for the tip! Hopefully I'll get a chance to look into it this weekend...sounds like something I could test easily with 5 minutes under the 40 and a roll of duct tape

 

[RWBeringer4x4]

Destin might be on to something...

This might sound weird, and might not be your rattle.
But I Had a rattle That I ended up tracking downt to the clutch fork rubber boot retention plate.
( located on the out side of the bell housing, on the side the clutch fork makes contact to the slave rod )
A long shot but hey worth a look

Hey Destin,

I looked into this the other day. As I mentioned, I don't HAVE a clutch fork boot, or mounting plate, since I'm running a GM bellhousing/fork but I did find something that might be a problem.

If I grab the clutch fork, and push it up and down (toward the hood, toward the ground) I get a solid 3/4in of motion in each direction. In your experience, Should there be that much play?

I've never been into the guts of a trans/clutch but my understanding is there is a fork connected to a retaining ring which houses a bearing that slips over the input shaft (and a bunch of other stuff). Given that info, it would seem to me that the retaining ring, bearing, or the shaft itself, would need to be loose to get that kind of play...

Of course, my GM Bell housing also does not have an inspection plate, so this is all by feel, couldn't see much in the dark through the clutch fork hole