Manually turn oil pump on 3FE engine rebuild?

[jcarter]

Long story short:
I am thinking about using a screwdriver in my drill to turn the oil pump with the distributor off, prior to starting the engine on a rebuild. Has anyone done this before? Seems like a good idea to prevent a dry start.

Long story long:
I'm hoping to get my project (see Bad Piston 2 now what?) completed this weekend. The block is (and always has been) installed. Left to do is install 1 piston, oil pan, head, and all other stuff on top.

I followed the FSM, using normal motor oil for "assembly oil". Also, the oil pump is new.

I've got to replace the O-ring on the distributor, so will have the distributor off at some point.

Picture this: Everything installed except valve cover (like you were doing a valve adjustment). Take off distributor to replace Oring, while off turn oil pump with FAT screwdriver in drill until I get oil in my rockers. Finishing everything else, then cranking her over.

Seems like its a good idea.

Any input would help. Could I screw anything up?

 

[Tools R Us]

What I do at first start: Remove the ECU fuse, crank the motor until the gauge shows pressure, install the fuse and fire it up.

 

[jcarter]

I realize it's not the most common way, but will it work?

I think the only risk is tearing up the end of the oil pump where the distributor doesn't seat well, but I intend on using something without a lot of slop and making sure I have a good grab of it so this doesn't happen.

 

[86tuning]

If you used engine overhaul lube on the bearings and tappets all you need to do before startup is to pre-fill your oil filter.

On initial startup crank for 1/2 sec and shut the ign off to check for expensive noises. Then crank and start as normal. Your fuel rail will be dry for a few seconds which is enough time to prime the rest of the lubrication system.

Once the oil galleries are full of oil, you'll have oil pressure within 1/2 sec of startup. That, along with the lubriplate or equivalent assembly lube and you're more than fine.

When we build engines here that will be installed and started immediately (within a week) we don't use assembly lube. We use 20w50 engine oil on the bearings, and normal 5w30 engine oil for initial fill. If the engine will sit around for weeks or months before installation we will use lubriplate assembly lube.

 

[Kernal]

Anyone here with experience using the pressurized preoilers that attach at the oil pressure sensor connection?

 

[86tuning]

We install accusumps onto our track and drift cars. Work as advertised as an oil presssure accumulator on a track car.

IMO it doesn't have the cost-benefit ratio on an 80, which doesn't really have any lubrication related issues.

As for initial startup and priming of the oil system on a fresh overhaul, we don't really need them on a Toyota engine. Just fill up your filter before installing.

 

[Alleycats]

How do you fill up the oil filter when the oil filter is upside down when installed?

 

[jcarter]

Priming oil filter (I think)

Kernal was describing this to me earlier in a PM. Let me give it a whirl. . .

fill up the middle. Carefully open the top outer slots so air can escape, fill up middle again with air coming out the outer slots until full. When you flop it over to put it on, the middle oil will leak out, but the outer oil under the outer slots will stay. Now the filter is primed.

So how'd I do? Good student or what?

 

[jcarter]

Back to spin the oil pump with screwdriver

I've heard many comments back on how it is SUPPOSED TO BE DONE. I haven't heard any comments on if anyone thinks it will work.

I'm thinking use the pump to fill EVERYTHNG is a good idea, do you agree? It doesn't appear to be attached to anything, it should fill up everything, sounds like a good idea?

Thanks,

Joe

PS Fram is the devil. I found "ORANGE FILTER OF DEATH" while investigating prime the engine with oil after rebuild.
Hope I can find the receipt for my 2 new Fram filters :whoops:

 

[Tools R Us]

Back to spin the oil pump with screwdriver

I've heard many comments back on how it is SUPPOSED TO BE DONE. I haven't heard any comments on if anyone thinks it will work.

Yes, it will work, has been done tons of times. How long will it take you to get everything back together and ready to run, how much of the pumped oil will drain back into the pan?

I'm thinking use the pump to fill EVERYTHNG is a good idea, do you agree?
...

Great idea, I would use the electric motor already connected to the motor, it's often referred to as the starter.

 

[86tuning]

So how'd I do? Good student or what?

PS Fram is the devil.

yep. You're doing just fine. Try not to overthink it too much. Spin the oil pump for 30s if you like. Won't hurt anything, and will at the very least give you peace of mind.

 

[jcarter]

Now we're getting somehwere.

Time: I plan on it being one of the last things I do. What will be left? Put distributor in & plug wires. May be some other stuff in my way, but I'm thinking an hour at most.

Better then using the starter: The starter turns the crank which pushes the "dry" pistons and other "dry" stuff the oil pump hadn't had a chance to lube yet. Oil comes when the crank turns the cam which turns the gear which turns the distributor which turns the oil pump. I'd be cutting out the middle man and starting a wet engine, right?

I've been oiling everything up as I reassemble, but it's taking me weeks to do it. I'm concerned the oil will be gone by the time I'm done and want to start it. I'll prime the oil filter, but still think pumping the oil pump is prudent especially since I need to replace the o-ring in the distributor.

Of course this is what I'm thinking and sometimes (okay, a lot of times) I'm thinking wrong. Just want to make sure not this time.

I wouldn't have thought of this if I hadn't had gotten intimate with the oil pump while replacing it, had to take out the distributor to POUND the old one out, new one wouldn't go back in, so had to take off the "female" in the block and deburr it so the pump could slide in.

 

[Tools R Us]

... The starter turns the crank which pushes the "dry" pistons and other "dry" stuff the oil pump hadn't had a chance to lube yet. ...

You are way over thinking this, but, do it how ever you are comfortable.

I always lube parts before assembly, so don't have dry parts. The forces/friction to turn the motor over are a tiny fraction of running. If the motor is so frail that damage will be done by turning it over, it is in big trouble once it is running!

 

[jcarter]

I'm an engineer by profession, so over-thinking is my curse. Ironically, the other side of the engineering curse is common sense stupid. Like using assembly oil instead of normal oil. In hindsight, assembly oil must be "stickier" or stay around longer.

Like Clint says, "A man's got to know his weaknesses". Which is why I ask (sometimes overboard) a lot of questions so my engineering brain doesn't make a common sense mistake.

2 Mistakes so far:
1. Oil pump female: I couldn't find torque numbers in the FSM, so when I put it in, I torqued it down pretty tight (17mm IIRC). In hindsight, I should have put the female in - temporarily installed the oil pump & distributor, then tighten the oil pump making sure the two lined up perfectly.
2. Air Throttle Gasket: I had to cut my own. I cut it for the air plenum side (much less complicated piece). After that, I should have put it on the throttle body side and trimmed it per the throttle body blank. Now I have gasket material possibly where I don't want it. I'm going to leave it as is unless a fellow MUDDER tells me I'll be screwed or it doesn't run right when done. It's easy to get to, so easy to fix later.

Thanks for the recomendation. 30s it is!

 

[Tools R Us]

I'm an engineer by profession, so over-thinking is my curse. Ironically, the other side of the engineering curse is common sense stupid. Like using assembly oil instead of normal oil. In hindsight, assembly oil must be "stickier" or stay around longer.
...

Motor oil is a fine lube, lots of manuals call for it as assembly lube. Assembly lube is thicker and better if the motor is going to sit long term before starting. We used it on motors that that were for stock or going out for retail, more likely to sit in the warehouse, etc.

Think of it this way; if you were to park the rig for a week, would you pull the distributor and prime? Most would just start it and never have an issue. It is the same deal, most of the oil drains back to the pan.

It takes very little oil to provide basic lubrication, just enough to change surface color. If it was oiled in the last couple of months, it's good to go.