Manifold out... now What?

[gnavarroo]

So I figured I may as well move this out of the "Exhaust manifold gasket: Any comperable manufactures" thread and start a new one since I'ts been determinded that Fel-Pro is the way to go...
Well here it is after many long hours... it's out. Now it will just sit untill I have another good chunk of time to put it back in... Mean while, I need to get some opinions on what seem to look like cracks? I'll start here with some pics then ask youz guyz about etiquette... would it be crappy of me to go down to a local muffler shop just to get their opinion on the condition of this manifold? The bottom line is that I'm pretty ignorant about these things... AND... I cant tell if these are cracks at all or just surface flaking. What's the best way to go about this? I want to make sure these manifolds are good before I go on.
Second part of the question: What is with the joint (where the key is pointing) there? On one side of the EX manifold it turns here at that joint... the otherside just kinda wobbles. I checked out the sor site and on their diagram they have indicated that a "ring and spring" go here (Ex manifold spring and ring). They have spring listed at $8.95 and ring at $15.45, req. two of each... Does the turning and wobbling indicate needing replacement and how do you get to these things to get them out?
My worry about replacing parts/gaskets on this manifold is contingent on whether they are actually cracked or not...
Can anyone help??? Please! TIA
George

 

[2mbb]

I'm not expert on cracks, either. The middle pic doesn't look like a crack. On the bottom picture, it looks like there is some residu on the outside--have you tried scraping off the residue to get down to the base metal?

The two end pieces should come out of the exhaust manifold. Just twist and pull, but you might need to add something to lubricate, maybe penetrating oil or carb cleaner or something. This will allow you to acces the ring seals and spring. My guess is that this three piece arrangement is some sort of thermal expansion joint.

 

[gnavarroo]

good ideas

I'm not expert on cracks, either. The middle pic doesn't look like a crack. On the bottom picture, it looks like there is some residu on the outside--have you tried scraping off the residue to get down to the base metal?

The two end pieces should come out of the exhaust manifold. Just twist and pull, but you might need to add something to lubricate, maybe penetrating oil or carb cleaner or something. This will allow you to acces the ring seals and spring. My guess is that this three piece arrangement is some sort of thermal expansion joint.

Yes, very good ideas with the scraping to get to the base metal and the lube for the joint. Haven't tried either...
would you recomend replacing the springs and rings now that I have the chance? I'd like to do as much as possible to make this thing leak free while I have the chance. any other suggestions on what to replace? I did a shopping cart list on sor of things that I felt should be replaced (less the manifold gasket; I will get fel-pro somewhere else) everything from nuts and bolts, gaskets to rings and springs ~$175... Anywhere else to shop that would have all these little specific parts?

 

[2mbb]

I did replace the springs and rings and studs and bolts when I replaced my head gasket. I'm not sure whether you need to though. For these parts you might also try the dealer, specifically, Cruiser Dan, from American Toyota, who's also on this fourm. The SOP prices seem to be a little more than MSRP, so Dan should be less.

 

[mrsvle]

Check for Warpage

You've probably read that you should check for any warpage at this stage. Place a straight edge (a level works pretty well) across the face of the intake/exhaust manifold where it mates up to the cylinder head. There should not be any gaps or spaces. You can use a feeler guage between the straight edge and the manifold to see how much clearance there is (check the fsm for warpage limits). If there is warpage, which is quite common, a machine shop can plane it or mill it straight again for about $50. You might need to call around to see which shop has done this before.

Also, it is a good time to replace the two gaskets between the intake and exhaust manifold and check the condition of the heat shield spacer in there.

Also check the condition and action of the heat riser valve -- a butterfly valve or plate between the intake and exhaust manifold.

HTH

Matt

 

[60wag]

I don't think the exhaust manifold suffers from cracks nearly as often as the intake manifold. The usual crack occurs in the flat area directly below the carb, above the exhaust heat deflector valve. I recently had an intake fail when the "ear" that bolts to the head at cyl #6 cracked off. The ends of the exhaust manifold are supposed to move. Don't bother separating them or replacing the seals unless there is an obvious leak indicated by significant carbon tracks. Getting the whole assembly flat is the most important thing. Put the flange surfaces on a flat surface when bolting the intake and exhaust together. Then have a machine shop surface the whole thin as an assembly if needed.

 

[Mr. Toad]

I was going to ask the exact same question about the springs and rings, but the answer's already here! By the way, you need 4 of each if you're going to do both sides. i <3 MUD

A follow-up Q: In the absence of "carbon tracks" indicating a leak, just how much wobble is OK?

 

[gnavarroo]

Checking for warpage will be the next quick task. Buddy of mine has an edge and feeler guage... He's got a machine shop too, will probably have him plane them out.
the two gaskets between the intake and exhaust manifold and checking the condition of the heat shield spacer in there: Yesterday I attempted to crack it open, but 4 of the 5 bolts holding this thing together turned once or twice before getting really tight again. I don't want to risk busting them or stripping the holes. Any suggestions on how to get these bolts out safely? Heat or penetrating oil, maybe?
I'm waiting to talk to my machinist buddy. He might have some of the answers. I don't anticipate that he'll have them all as he makes guns in his shop and doesn't frequently mess with car parts... But has some experience... the guy's a genius!

 

[90FJ62]

Checking for warpage will be the next quick task. Buddy of mine has an edge and feeler guage... He's got a machine shop too, will probably have him plane them out.
the two gaskets between the intake and exhaust manifold and checking the condition of the heat shield spacer in there: Yesterday I attempted to crack it open, but 4 of the 5 bolts holding this thing together turned once or twice before getting really tight again. I don't want to risk busting them or stripping the holes. Any suggestions on how to get these bolts out safely? Heat or penetrating oil, maybe?
I'm waiting to talk to my machinist buddy. He might have some of the answers. I don't anticipate that he'll have them all as he makes guns in his shop and doesn't frequently mess with car parts... But has some experience... the guy's a genius!

I used alot of PB and slowly loosen and tighten the bolts to wor the PB into the threads. FYI though I still did break one of the bolts. The threads at M10 x 1.25 if you have a tap run it through the threads to clean them up even if the bolts do come out ok.

David

 

[gnavarroo]

I used alot of PB and slowly loosen and tighten the bolts to wor the PB into the threads. FYI though I still did break one of the bolts. The threads at M10 x 1.25 if you have a tap run it through the threads to clean them up even if the bolts do come out ok.

David

Excuse my ignorance once again, but what is PB? Recomended brand names etc?

 

[90FJ62]

Excuse my ignorance once again, but what is PB? Recomended brand names etc?

PB Blaster -- All I use

David

 

[gnavarroo]

Heat riser valve... A NO GO???

So I'm gettin' ready to order parts... manifold gasket (fel-pro), new manifold bolts and nuts, heat riser insulator etc... I'm just wondering if the heat riser valve will be OK like this...
Does anyone know where I can get one new or in better condition. sor.com shows it as discontinued. How important is this part (Heat riser Valve)? Could this be the source of my "bad exhaust smell" when the engine runs?
TIA

 

[gnavarroo]

PB blaster is the shiznit!

PB Blaster -- All I use

David

By the way, David, thanks for the suggestion... PB blaster kicks ass!

 

[Mr. Toad]

So I'm gettin' ready to order parts... manifold gasket (fel-pro), new manifold bolts and nuts, heat riser insulator etc... I'm just wondering if the heat riser valve will be OK like this...
Does anyone know where I can get one new or in better condition. sor.com shows it as discontinued. How important is this part (Heat riser Valve)? Could this be the source of my "bad exhaust smell" when the engine runs?
TIA

You say you're going to install a heat riser insulator. Are you talking about one of those isolater plates sold by SOR, Cool Cruisers and others? They prevent the exhaust gas from striking the bottom of your intake manifold--perhaps extending its life. If you go this route, either remove the heat riser valve or attach the manifolds to each other with the heat riser valve in the closed position. You will want to make sure that exhaust isn't leaking through the hole for the heat riser valve shaft.

As far as exhaust smell . . . If it's leaking out before the catalytic converters, then it'll stink worse than exhaust that goes through the cats. However, if it's really that bad, you probably have incomplete combustion for one reason or another.

One last thing -- It doesn't hurt to double-up on the manifold gaskets.

 

[gnavarroo]

You say you're going to install a heat riser insulator. Are you talking about one of those isolater plates sold by SOR, Cool Cruisers and others? They prevent the exhaust gas from striking the bottom of your intake manifold--perhaps extending its life. If you go this route, either remove the heat riser valve or attach the manifolds to each other with the heat riser valve in the closed position. You will want to make sure that exhaust isn't leaking through the hole for the heat riser valve shaft.

As far as exhaust smell . . . If it's leaking out before the catalytic converters, then it'll stink worse than exhaust that goes through the cats. However, if it's really that bad, you probably have incomplete combustion for one reason or another.

One last thing -- It doesn't hurt to double-up on the manifold
gaskets.

No, I think I know what you mean, though... Not the stainless steel product they sell. I would be more inclined to call them "gaskets"... the 3 gaskets that go between the exhaust manifold and the intake (the surface you see in the pic above). On sor.com they call these heat riser isulators, req. 3...
My question is, actually, how bad does this heat riser flap look. should it be ok or is it something I should worry about repacing... It looks toasted. It's warped to hell, the bolt heads to the two bolts that hold it to the shaft are melted and there is a good size hole in the flap itself. Don't know what do ya'll think? Where does one get a replacement? I'm thinking cruiserparts.net or C-dan

 

[dorcom]

...My question is, actually, how bad does this heat riser flap look.

BAD! Your heat riser flap is gone!
You could take it out all together since it is a non essential part. You seem to live in NM so you don't really deal with 10 F temps. All it does it warms up the intake manifold faster.

I just finished the same job you're doing.
Let me know if you need more info!

Rob
FJ60, 270k+ miles...

 

[erics]

to clarify Dorcom's comment, the heat riser flap is in the open position when the engine is cool, directing exhaust gases directly at the bottom of the intake manifold. When the engine warms up, the flap is supposed to close, directing exhaust gases directly out the downpipe.

I wouldn't characterize the flap as non-essential, regardless of geographic location because without it in there exhaust gases would be CONSTANTLY hitting the bottom of the intake manifold. This is the same as what happens when the flap gets stuck and no longer moves, resulting in the typical cracks in the intake manifold... I've seen bottoms of intake manifolds that look like your flap from all the exhaust hitting it due to a stuck flap.

bottom line: fix the flap or replace with a solid piece insulator like the various vendors provide.

 

[gnavarroo]

to clarify Dorcom's comment, the heat riser flap is in the open position when the engine is cool, directing exhaust gases directly at the bottom of the intake manifold. When the engine warms up, the flap is supposed to close, directing exhaust gases directly out the downpipe.

I wouldn't characterize the flap as non-essential, regardless of geographic location because without it in there exhaust gases would be CONSTANTLY hitting the bottom of the intake manifold. This is the same as what happens when the flap gets stuck and no longer moves, resulting in the typical cracks in the intake manifold... I've seen bottoms of intake manifolds that look like your flap from all the exhaust hitting it due to a stuck flap.

bottom line: fix the flap or replace with a solid piece insulator like the various vendors provide.

Looks like I'll be busting the flap out some how. the bolt heads that hold the flap to the shaft look to be melted... prob grind them off keeping the shaft in place. Will look into replacing with solid piece insulator...
thanks!

 

[bigbrowndog]

I just used a belt sander to do my turbo manifold the cast iron sands off real quick, it took less than 10 minutes.
More detail here..https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=79256

 

[gnavarroo]

Manifold Rings and Springs

What the??? turbo? belt sander? I seem to have misplaced these things.... I don't seem to have them on my 60?
Anyway... I'm debating replacing the manifold spring and rings at this point. I've just about ordered everything I need to finish up the job. I'm looking to get all the parts in by the end of next week and put it together next weekend.
What to do about the manifold rings and springs? how do you know if these things need to be replaced? I finally got those manifold "ends" or "horns", if you will, off. There were no signs off carbon tracks. The left end was a little tough to remove. It took a little PB Blaster and a little knocking with a plastic hammer to get it off. I'm just wondering what constitutes replacing these small yet EXPENSIVE little parts. Should I replace them now that I've taken the ends off? Will having removed them effect how they seal (or what ever their Job is)???
Anyone??

I just used a belt sander to do my turbo manifold the cast iron sands off real quick, it took less than 10 minutes.
More detail here..https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=79256