Makin the 80 slooow down

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@Land Speeder yeah, who should I send my dues to? Seriously, may as well make it official. :)

Anyway, I posted the only pic I have in the knitting circle, but I will have to get a thread started somewhere on it once the rain let's up. Trying to come up with a name for it, taking suggestuons.
 
So while I haven't given up on a ToyBox, I have been looking at other options. Right now the most viable one seems to be dropping a NorthWest Fab Black box in the middle. It offers a 2.72:1 Low range option which would net about 116:1 with an H42 and 5.29s in the axles. I am trying to get some additional information from NWF. @BamaPaul do you recall about what the length on the toybox was? The Black Box assembled length is a little over 8" and as I am working on a deal for a lift with a DC front DS, I would be beside myself if the install didn't require me to modify said shaft.

And if I were to want to get really crazy with it, I could drop a set of AA gears in the case which would give you the option of 51:1, 75:1 or 204:1.

NWF is also rumored to be working on an option for installing a black box in between the stock 80 slushbox and t-case
 
So I been back at the math today and I am curious as to what you all think is a reasonable low range target for the 80. If money were know option, and H55-blackbox-4:1 geared split case-5.29 axles could put the 80 down around 278:1, but that is about $7k in parts to put together.

So I'm curious.

All my figures are based off having 5.29 gears since that is what I am running. So here is what I have been able to piece together using the interwebs to source gearing selections.

Stock A440F and 80 case is free and puts you at 38.8:1

Stock A440F 80 case with Marlin gears - 48.6:1 cost $800 for gears

H42 with 38mm idler split case - 43:1 and costs about $1,000 - $1,500 plus the labor of the swap

H42 with 38mm split case with AA 4:1 gears - 75.1:1 and will run you $2,500 - $3,000 plus the swap

H55 with stock 38 mm split case - 58.6:1 and will cost around $3,000 for trans, and associated parts, plus swap

H55 with 38mm AA 4:1 split case - 102.4:1 and will run around $4,500 for trans, gears and associated parts, plus swap

H42 with Black box and stock split case - 116.9:1 and will cost you around $4,000 plus swap

H42/ black box/ AA geared split case - 204.3:1 and will run you about $5,500 plus swap

H55/ black box/ stock split case - 159.4:1 and will run you $5,500 plus swap

H55/ black box/ AA geared split case - 278.5:1 and will hit the $7,000 mark without breaking a sweat

So where is a good target. I figure I will be doing the swap myself, so that labor will be mostly free and wasn't figured in. All those figures are from various sites that sell the misc parts and such.

I know that the fuel tank is one of the biggest points that is discussed and I believe based on some searching that a non-spacer H42 with a BB and split case would bolt in really close to the stock setups overall length. Bolting the BB behind a H55 may get a little cozy with the tank.

So I know that is a lot of numbers, but if a guy has a trans on the way out, then the cost of the swap itself can kind of be offset by what the cost of the A440F rebuild would run which I have read can be in the $2,000-$3,000 neighborhood. I need to call the local shop and get a quote to see what I am working with on that for sure, but if I am looking at $3k for a rebuild, and knowing the H55 and BB may not play nice with the tank, is it worth the extra $$ to go the route H42/BB route for the added gear selection.

I am genuinely curious as I have not gotten the 80 into anything that I felt I needed to truly "crawl" but I have also not gotten into anything crawl worthy with it either. Assuming primarily southeastern trails does an over 5k rig that is running the stock 3FE even need to be flirting with such super low gears?

What chew fellas think?
 
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My opinion is that the 80 is a great wheeler because of the automatic trans. Going to a manual trans almost MAKES you have to have a crawl gear so that you don't stall out. And that was something I was not use to, nor ever wanted to get used to.
So if you go manual, then get the low low gears.
 
That makes total sense. The trans in the Deuce is going to need some attention to make it dependable enough for Erin to want to drive it, so I am either going to have to take a gamble on someone rebuilding the 440F, or look at a manual swap into either it or into Bruce and moving his Trans over into the Deuce, so what gets what also makes a difference since if the Deuce gets the manual swap going H55 for road manners makes the most sense, but if Bruce gets the swap, the H42 and BB combo would probably be the best route. So many points to ponder on, and right in the middle of trying to move too. Ok, in reality, this is a nice distraction from all the other crap going on right now. ;)
 
That's some expensive mods...coming from the perspective of someone that had(has) an 80 buggy and a low geared crawler (223:1), they are two totally different animals. In many cases the 80 buggy is great, but after taking the 4Runner to GSMTR, the low gears make wheeling so much better for me. The control is the major plus side, but I also wheel with guys that are also big crawlers.
 
is that truck still going to be a driver after all this, or trailer rig?

for 8k, why not just go all out and throw a benz diesel in it? I have seen the 5cyl diesel sedans as cheap as 1k on craigslist.
 
AuburnFJsexy said:
That's some expensive mods...coming from the perspective of someone that had(has) an 80 buggy and a low geared crawler (223:1), they are two totally different animals. In many cases the 80 buggy is great, but after taking the 4Runner to GSMTR, the low gears make wheeling so much better for me. The control is the major plus side, but I also wheel with guys that are also big crawlers.
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I agree, too expensive to be disappointed.
I can wheel with them same crawlers in an 80. Heck you did too. Your 60 was the first rig I ever tried driving on the same trails I had my 80 and it's a stupid comparison in stock form. Stalling on a small rock that I'm usually rolling up to and then rev'ing over... Thinking back to that, I'm not sure why I ever wanted the 80 with the same setup.
 
@AuburnFJsexy having been in an 80 and now the mini, it sounds like your preference is the mini, but like Eric said, I think the gears are needed to keep you from stalling with the manual, agree?

So if I do a manual swap on a trail rig, I will need to go low low, otherwise I should just drop a marlin gear and a spool in the t-case and keep the auto in the trail rig, and do an H55 swap in the driver and call it good. Then if the 440 takes a dump I can re-evaluate the situation and see what direction I want to go.

I know I'm mixing in a little not-so-slow talk in but I kinda have to as what happens with one can dictate options with the other.
 
I REALLY want to drive an 80 with that marlin gear, I have a feeling it will be enough considering I LOVE the 80 drive train in it's original form, the gear seems to be like it just goes from 3, to 2, to L, to LowLow. The gear gives you just one notch lower and honestly... that's all the 80 needs, it's already a cheating sumbitch on the trail as it is... Keep in mind... I wheel my 80 with not crawlers, but the BIG boys who have nothing less than 40's... and I'm on 35's. I can hang with them until they hit the "You Stupid" hills...

10869388_10153088158262421_854544567620256646_o.jpg
 
AuburnFJsexy said:
That's some expensive mods...coming from the perspective of someone that had(has) an 80 buggy and a low geared crawler (223:1), they are two totally different animals. In many cases the 80 buggy is great, but after taking the 4Runner to GSMTR, the low gears make wheeling so much better for me. The control is the major plus side, but I also wheel with guys that are also big crawlers.
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To me, having been through the spectrum over the last several years starting bone stock 40:1 +/- to now over 217:1 there is just no debate. If rock crawling is the goal then GEARS are where it's at and the lower the better. Like you said... if money is no object then go as low as possible, you'll never regret the decision.



Really glad Nick posted this as he's coming from the realm you're now entering and his perspective is invaluable. I think Nick would agree there's just no comparison to going slow and BTW notice what direction he's headed in.

As he said SLOW means "control" and that's huge in the crawler world, control also means less wear and tear on drive-train, suspension etc... Ever watched a well geared rig simply pick and plot its way through a boulder field? Notice how there's virtually no bounce after cresting and then descending the backside of a rock? Watch how smooth the transition from one rock to another is, it's impressive to watch.

I can not state this enough... the characteristic (problem if you will) of automatic/non low-geared rigs is they simply have too much break-over speed and this is what kills parts - again, ask Nick Gears virtually eliminate all of that.

To Eric's point about wanting to drive an 80 with marlin gears, I'm pretty sure Nick's has this setup and it aint near enough for an automatic.
 
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Land Speeder said:
I REALLY want to drive an 80 with that marlin gear, I have a feeling it will be enough considering I LOVE the 80 drive train in it's original form
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I have the marlin gears In the Franken80, I wouldn't consider them a game changers, but with 5.29s they would be better...you notice them the most on steep hills, not much on obstacles
 
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AuburnFJsexy said:
I have the marlin gears In the Franken80, I wouldn't consider them a game changers, but with 5.29s they would be better...you notice them the most on steep hills, not much on obstacles
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It's simply a lower gear, not a crawl box, but yeah, it's something.
Hmm, aren't you selling it?
 
I currently have 5.29s in Bruce, and as is it often feels like if it were much lower that the brakes wouldn't stop it. So I guess worst case I can go Marlin gear and a spool for the case, hubs up front and see how things go. Would you all agree that worst case I could sell the case if I decided I needed to go real slow.

I also recognize that I am looking at taking an 80 into a realm that it rarely goes (outside of Eric that is) but I'd say I have rarely been accused of being normal, and I AM often accused of doing things the hard way... matter of fact, Erin and I had a discussion about that very thing yesterday, so why start now.
 
Why start, or why stop now? LOL.
Hey, I'm single because I got tired of being told no to things I knew were not normal but I wanted to do because it would be enjoyable. Not saying be single, just saying: Take care of your family responsibilities first, then do whatever you want. Regardless of which way you go, because it's fun, you have ONE life. ENJOY it.
 
For that kind of money, I'd be thinking 5.3, 6.0, or 6.4 gm swap...
 
beno said:
Well Jynx.... since you will be visiting soon ;) I do have 5.29 diffs ready as well as a transfer case set up with part time and lower gears.
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Oh. I mean, I can visit too...
 
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