LX Curious History Question (1 Viewer)

[TG1]

Hey Everyone,

Not sure this is the best thread category for this but I know you guys will tell me if it's not.

Looking at a 2015 LX with around 65k on it.

It apparently came off lease (1 owner) but was put up for auction (1st odd thing) was bought by a Lexus dealer and is now being sold as a L/Certified vehicle. (the other really odd thing)... Finally its been out there for about 3 months (another oddity) which is an awfully looong time without being sold.

Anyone think this is bizarre?

Thanks in advance.

 

[bloc]

Certified should reasonably eliminate any risk of prior flood or significant accident damage. A car sitting around for a few months isn’t exactly great for a dealer but it wouldn’t be impossible either.

If everything else looked good (history, location, condition) and upon inspection it was clean and solid those anomalies wouldn’t keep me from buying

 

[TG1]

Certified should reasonably eliminate any risk of prior flood or significant accident damage. A car sitting around for a few months isn’t exactly great for a dealer but it wouldn’t be impossible either.

If everything else looked good (history, location, condition) and upon inspection it was clean and solid those anomalies wouldn’t keep me from buying

Thanks.

What seems really weird is that it looks like the lease turn-back dealer decided not to sell a vehicle that was L/Certifiable and instead sent it to auction... I have never heard of that happening unless there were issues that the leasing dealer knew about.

The only significant issue I can see from dealer records is the front passenger seat has had issues where they tried to keep the back from coming off multiple times and eventually had to remove it and re fasten it. It was brought in 3 times (2nd time after a year and then about 6 months later for the third try) for this including having it sublet out to someone to fix it the 2nd time which apparently didn't work. I had thought it was a Lexus Mfr Buy Back because of that as the CarFax shows it as Vehicle Manufacturer in the Source column in April after which I'm not sure what happened to it and eventually it went to auction in mid July (TEN weeks later) and now the dealer has it up for sale since later in July. The dealer indicated that lease turn-ins always say Manufacturer in CarFax.

So an odd series of things I'm just trying to make sense of.

 

[bobNoobie]

would you be able to enter the vin and create account here? Lexus Service History | Lexus Drivers

I was able to get my history since the previous owner never registered it I guess.

 

[chittick]

The other thing to consider is that with the recall going, dealers couldn't sell a vehicle as L/Cert. It's possible they were holding onto it to turn it around at a higher price once the recall landed.

When i bought my '15 LX in May, the dealer was offering it as L/Cert, but when we got into negotiations, they pulled back saying they couldn't sell it as certified, but they offered me a chunk of money off the price instead.

Definitely check the Lexus Service History. If it's on the level, it'll have solid records in there. If you don't see 5-10K service intervals noted, you might want to look elsewhere.

 

[bloc]

It being held for the airbag recall would be in a very clearly defined timeframe. Plus, 15 is in the year range that only recently had a remedy approved. Did used ones sitting on lots get the recall done before consumers so that they could be sold cpo? I know new ones did but seem to remember it being because they didn’t need a whole seatbelt assembly, just a wiring harness modification.

Will the CPO warranty cover any front seat issues?

Dealers might have all kinds of reasons for not wanting to hold on to such a vehicle. If they churn out a million ISes but zero LXes.. or they think they couldn’t sell a used 15LX when compared to the new ones on the lot.. I dunno. Still, I wouldn’t be worried especially if it’s CPO with all the benefits that brings.

 

[Chrisleduc1]

When I worked at a new car franchise (several under one roof), the dealer rarely, if even had the opportunity to buy the vehicle from the leasing company (normally that OEM's banking division). Normally that option is only for the customer. Lexus Financial may do it differently (or whoever they leased it through). Not only that, the residual value was normally higher than what they were bringing at auction, and so even if the dealer had the option to buy from that particular finance company, the money was rarely, (never that I can remember) right. So in my limited experience with a couple of franchises over a decade ago, the dealer handled the paperwork for the bank and the customer, got paid a tiny sum to do so (not enough for the hassle unless the customer is buying out their lease) and then the vehicle would sit, as property of the finance company, until they sent a truck to retrieve it and take it to auction.

 

[TG1]

would you be able to enter the vin and create account here? Lexus Service History | Lexus Drivers

I was able to get my history since the previous owner never registered it I guess.

Yeh I did that which is how I found out about the passenger seat 3 strikes repair history.

 

[ceb]

Let's assume that the original owner wanted to "lemon" the car because of the seat issue. Manufacturers will do most anything to keep from having to go the lemon law route, so they may put the owner in a new car, end the lease early and so forth.

This means that the manufacturer now has a clean car they need to get rid of. The original dealer doesn't want it, so the manufacturer will send the car off to auction. A different dealer may see the car and say "I can CPO that" and the cycle continues.

For a seat though, you'd think that they'd just put a whole new assembly in.

 

[TG1]

Let's assume that the original owner wanted to "lemon" the car because of the seat issue. Manufacturers will do most anything to keep from having to go the lemon law route, so they may put the owner in a new car, end the lease early and so forth.

This means that the manufacturer now has a clean car they need to get rid of. The original dealer doesn't want it, so the manufacturer will send the car off to auction. A different dealer may see the car and say "I can CPO that" and the cycle continues.

For a seat though, you'd think that they'd just put a whole new assembly in.

Very interesting process that I never realized happened. Sounds like that could be what happened with this vehicle.

Don't want to beat a dead horse but I do want to be sure I have a good feeling about what may have happened to it.

The carfax dates are:
- 4/29 - Vehicle Manufacturer - Vehicle Sold ....and then next entry......
- 7/17 - Auto Auction - Vehicle Sold ending with this Lexus dealer CPO'ing it

So do you think having ten weeks elapse from what may have been either a manufacturers buy-back OR a lease turn-in to the time it ends up at an auction is a normal delay ?

Appreciate the scoop!

 

[TG1]

When I worked at a new car franchise (several under one roof), the dealer rarely, if even had the opportunity to buy the vehicle from the leasing company (normally that OEM's banking division). Normally that option is only for the customer. Lexus Financial may do it differently (or whoever they leased it through). Not only that, the residual value was normally higher than what they were bringing at auction, and so even if the dealer had the option to buy from that particular finance company, the money was rarely, (never that I can remember) right. So in my limited experience with a couple of franchises over a decade ago, the dealer handled the paperwork for the bank and the customer, got paid a tiny sum to do so (not enough for the hassle unless the customer is buying out their lease) and then the vehicle would sit, as property of the finance company, until they sent a truck to retrieve it and take it to auction.

Thanks for the detailed info Chris.

So the event / dates description I detailed in my response to CEB sounds reasonable to you as well then?

 

[TG1]

It being held for the airbag recall would be in a very clearly defined timeframe. Plus, 15 is in the year range that only recently had a remedy approved. Did used ones sitting on lots get the recall done before consumers so that they could be sold cpo? I know new ones did but seem to remember it being because they didn’t need a whole seatbelt assembly, just a wiring harness modification.

Will the CPO warranty cover any front seat issues?

Dealers might have all kinds of reasons for not wanting to hold on to such a vehicle. If they churn out a million ISes but zero LXes.. or they think they couldn’t sell a used 15LX when compared to the new ones on the lot.. I dunno. Still, I wouldn’t be worried especially if it’s CPO with all the benefits that brings.

Thanks BLOC.

Appreciate the thoughts. I will see about the seat and CPO coverage. There was also 'damage' without an 'Accident' to the rear end but that doesn't really worry me as I would have a body shop (and mechanic PPI) take a look at it see what was repaired/replaced.

 

[TG1]

The other thing to consider is that with the recall going, dealers couldn't sell a vehicle as L/Cert. It's possible they were holding onto it to turn it around at a higher price once the recall landed.

When i bought my '15 LX in May, the dealer was offering it as L/Cert, but when we got into negotiations, they pulled back saying they couldn't sell it as certified, but they offered me a chunk of money off the price instead.

Definitely check the Lexus Service History. If it's on the level, it'll have solid records in there. If you don't see 5-10K service intervals noted, you might want to look elsewhere.

Thanks CHITTIC.

The history in Lexus looks pretty good except the last 3 pre-paid services were all around 5k late (40k service done at 45k, 45k service done at 51k and 50k at 57k) with the final sale prep done at 65k.

 

[Noah Miller]

If the price is right, please buy it and post some pictures. I bought a CPO 15 LX with 28K and now have 55K and it's still like a brand new vehicle.

 

[coleAK]

When I worked at a new car franchise (several under one roof), the dealer rarely, if even had the opportunity to buy the vehicle from the leasing company (normally that OEM's banking division). Normally that option is only for the customer. Lexus Financial may do it differently (or whoever they leased it through). Not only that, the residual value was normally higher than what they were bringing at auction, and so even if the dealer had the option to buy from that particular finance company, the money was rarely, (never that I can remember) right. So in my limited experience with a couple of franchises over a decade ago, the dealer handled the paperwork for the bank and the customer, got paid a tiny sum to do so (not enough for the hassle unless the customer is buying out their lease) and then the vehicle would sit, as property of the finance company, until they sent a truck to retrieve it and take it to auction.

I sold Porsche for while in school a long time ago and I my understanding from ~20 years ago is similar. I can’t ever remember the dealer getting a lease return. Porsche finance picked them up and they went away.

 

[TG1]

I sold Porsche for while in school a long time ago and I my understanding from ~20 years ago is similar. I can’t ever remember the dealer getting a lease return. Porsche finance picked them up and they went away.

Appreciate that...

 

[TG1]

If the price is right, please buy it and post some pictures. I bought a CPO 15 LX with 28K and now have 55K and it's still like a brand new vehicle.

Good to hear Noah. So just the scheduled maintenance then huh...?

 

[Mbarron37]

Hey Everyone,

Not sure this is the best thread category for this but I know you guys will tell me if it's not.

Looking at a 2015 LX with around 65k on it.

It apparently came off lease (1 owner) but was put up for auction (1st odd thing) was bought by a Lexus dealer and is now being sold as a L/Certified vehicle. (the other really odd thing)... Finally its been out there for about 3 months (another oddity) which is an awfully looong time without being sold.

Anyone think this is bizarre?

Thanks in advance.

Lexus dealers do this all the time. Certified means nothing but a warranty. I have a Lexus LS 460 and when I was searching for my used LS I saw plenty of this. I bought an auction car through a 3rd party that goes to auctions to find the exact vehicle you want. During this 6 month process I tracked certain cars that were sold at auction. Generally a $5k to $8k markup from the dealer that bought the car. Almost all ‘certified’ cars had paintwork done, generally to front and rear bumpers.

 

[Chrisleduc1]

Agreeing with comments above re: certified. Again going back to my franchise dealer days, with Honda, the car could be pretty rough, all the way around, and still be certified.

Unless you know what the “objective” criteria are, you don’t really know what you’re getting.

The warranty is great, but find out what objective criteria have to be met. An honest dealer should be willing to give you the facts, not just their summary interpretation of the objective standard. Then you’ll know what you’re getting, or not getting.

Going back to the lease->auction history, that wouldn’t concern me in the slightest.

 

[TG1]

Agreeing with comments above re: certified. Again going back to my franchise dealer days, with Honda, the car could be pretty rough, all the way around, and still be certified.

Unless you know what the “objective” criteria are, you don’t really know what you’re getting.

The warranty is great, but find out what objective criteria have to be met. An honest dealer should be willing to give you the facts, not just their summary interpretation of the objective standard. Then you’ll know what you’re getting, or not getting.

Going back to the lease->auction history, that wouldn’t concern me in the slightest.

Thanks Chris.

Yeh I tend to agree with that re: how picky they are when they L/Certify generally.

I think they will tend to overlook borderline stuff on the 161 point pre-certify check-list because it's a risk/cost formula. Don't fix it, expect no one will notice it, sell it and then gamble it doesn't get identified in the warranty period and even if it does they can always do the 'works as designed' rope a dope a couple of times. If they fix it during the inspection process then they've irrevocably sunk more time and $$ into it and they need to get that investment back in the sale price. That's why a PPI for mechanical and body work I think need to always be done regardless. I'm asking for the 161 point checklist results document now.

Appreciate the comments!