LSD v.s Lockers
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You should be able to put in an ARB air locker or an Aussie or a Detroit or a Powertrax or a Lock Rite...
But you probably want ARB
Your asking for options for locking the diffs and a LSD does not lock them, that is why I say ARB
Locked when you want, free when you don't
But you probably want ARB
Your asking for options for locking the diffs and a LSD does not lock them, that is why I say ARB
Locked when you want, free when you don't
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All depends on what you want.
A Limited slip is exactly that, limited..
What do you do with the rig. An ARB is NOT always the best option. Just generally, the most expensive..
A Limited slip is exactly that, limited..
What do you do with the rig. An ARB is NOT always the best option. Just generally, the most expensive..
An OEM LSD can ONLY be installed in a full float axle. That generally limits you to the front axle or a non-USA rear full floater.
ncoleman said:
Welcome.
I would suggest finding some new friends...
ncoleman said:
Locking differentials are not the same as limited slip units. A limited slip unit does just that, it limits the slip; it does not lock the two axle shafts together and split the power available to the axle shafts predictably and equally per side like a true locking differential does.
If you want reliable, predictable traction, then a locker, either one of the valu-lok series, Aussie, Lok-rite, Power-trax or similar unit, or a selectable ARB air locking differential are your choices. You can also weld the spider gears to the differential case for another version of a full time locker.
Poser said:
Excuse my ignorance. I know a difflock is better but does a LSD actually improve offroad performance? Does it improve traction or give more power to the wheels at all?
it most certianly does.. but why go halfway???Lupdog said:Excuse my ignorance. I know a difflock is better but does a LSD actually improve offroad performance? Does it improve traction or give more power to the wheels at all?
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Lupdog said:Excuse my ignorance. I know a difflock is better but does a LSD actually improve offroad performance? Does it improve traction or give more power to the wheels at all?
A LSD is better than nothing. An "automatic" locker like a Lockrite, Aussie Locker or Detroit is better traction wise than an LSD. A selectable locker is better than an automatic locker because there are many times that you DON'T want to be locked. I would divide it this way. If you have more than $700 to spend, get an ARB. If you have less than $500 get an Aussie Locker. Lockers are great and ARB's are the best of the lot. I would not waste any time money or effort on an LSD.
Thanks guys. I was just wondering about LSD because my mate just got an old Landrover ute with LSD and I wasn't sure how it worked. We took it out for a testrun last weekend to Stradbroke Island (lots of beasch and sand) and it went pretty well in the soft stuff - I guess the LSD helps?
I did laugh when the ute conked out after going through a medium sized creek crossing and the electrics died! Stupid distributer is located right at the front of the engine just behind the fan so it got soaked. I just told him that landcruisers are never afraid of water and next time he should give the landrover a bowl of milk!
I did laugh when the ute conked out after going through a medium sized creek crossing and the electrics died! Stupid distributer is located right at the front of the engine just behind the fan so it got soaked. I just told him that landcruisers are never afraid of water and next time he should give the landrover a bowl of milk!
Figure $1200 to $1400 for one ARB with install..
I disagree that ARB's are the premier option.. They are a good option for someone that does not rely on traction. I prefer the autolockers or a spool myself..
I disagree that ARB's are the premier option.. They are a good option for someone that does not rely on traction. I prefer the autolockers or a spool myself..
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
ncoleman said:Can anyone direct me to a site or refer me to a source that can verify the following.
Can a April 1980 Fj40 run selectable ARB??
To those who replied I am much obliged.
You don't need a site. It can with no issues. It will run a different one front and rear unless you have a full-float rear. The part #s are easy to get on ARBs website.
Lupdog said:Excuse my ignorance. I know a difflock is better but does a LSD actually improve offroad performance? Does it improve traction or give more power to the wheels at all?
A Limited Slip Differential can provide improvement in low traction situations, provided both tires are on the ground. In the event that you find yourself in a situation where one tire is off the ground, and try to start out from this position, you will find that you traction aiding device is not going to help, and will act like a stock, open differential and allow the tire that has traction to sit dead. A LSD unit needs both tires to be on the ground, or at least some resistance to rotating, to feed back to the clutch and spring pack in the carrier so that it will be able to equalize the speed of both axle shafts, in order to work properly, and this is something that requires some distance to be traveled in order to get them to ‘limit the slip’.
I have a brother in law that thought that I did not know what I was talking about when he asked me for my opinion on traction aiding devices a few years back. He was told that a limited slip unit was ‘just as good’ as a locker for the rear of his CJ. I explained the differences to him, and he went with a limited slip unit, only to have me riding in the truck and explain to him why things were not working ‘like his friends had told him’, when we could not traverse a simple twisty section in a gravel pit.
What do you see yourself doing with this vehicle that you feel that you need a traction aiding device?
Thanks Poser, just the info I was after.
For me it will be a difflock but I was wondering about the LSD because my mate has one and I wasn't totally sure how it worked.
For me it will be a difflock but I was wondering about the LSD because my mate has one and I wasn't totally sure how it worked.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Mace said:
Mace-I have to disagree. I have been running ARBs on my FJ40 for 5 years and my 80 series for 4 years. They ARE the premier option. Open if you want and locked when you need. What isn't to like. They are stronger than a stock diff and transparent when not locked. They are the best of both worlds. When locked, there is no difference between a locked ARB and a spool, plus, you can unlock the thing for on road handling or better turning in high traction spots. I leave the ARBs off 98% of the time, but the other 2% they make all the difference.
As you can tell, I think ARBs are great. A good install is CRITICAL. There are no downsides to an ARB except the expense. If you want cheap-weld the diff. Otherwise, the ARBs are a good investment.
A limited slip differential is great for street driven performance vehicles. It handles on the street much more predictably than a locker, is more forgiving than a locker, is quieter than a locker, and works better in the rain and on ice than a locker. It handle all but the most brute force engine loads. And the more it is subjected to engine torque, the more it will equalize power to both wheels (provided both wheels are on the ground and you've done something to address the issues of axle wrap and hop, etc.)
The drawbacks are that the clutch discs eventually wear out. The more power and the more traction you have, the sooner they wear out. And they will not equalize as much as a locker or spool.
By "forgiving", one of the nastiest drawbacks to a locker is when you apply so much power in a turn that instead of the outside wheel unlocking and freewheeling, the inside wheel speeds up by breaking traction and if more power is applied both wheels break traction and the rear end comes around on you.
For offroading, it's a different situation. You now have mainly infirm road surfaces, like gravel, dirt or mud, or no road at all. A limited slip, also known as positraction (posi), traction-lok or other names, needs to have traction for both wheels. A locker doesn't care. It's going to lock up both wheels unless one speeds up in a turn. You also generally aren't applying a lot of brute horsepower and torque (unless you're a mud bogger), so you won't be fully engaging the clutches on a posi.
Where a posi works best for offroad is on the front axle, particularly for those without power steering or with weak aqxle components. It's superior to an open differential, but it is inferior to a locker. It's less likely to break components. But as pointed out above, it tends to act as an open differential if you get a wheel in the air. They are strictly a compromise for off roading. Frankly, I think for an FJ40 you can do better with a locker and modifying the transfer case controls so you can go into 2-lo when making a tight turn. I heard someone jokingly call this a "Pacific Northwest ARB".
The drawbacks are that the clutch discs eventually wear out. The more power and the more traction you have, the sooner they wear out. And they will not equalize as much as a locker or spool.
By "forgiving", one of the nastiest drawbacks to a locker is when you apply so much power in a turn that instead of the outside wheel unlocking and freewheeling, the inside wheel speeds up by breaking traction and if more power is applied both wheels break traction and the rear end comes around on you.
For offroading, it's a different situation. You now have mainly infirm road surfaces, like gravel, dirt or mud, or no road at all. A limited slip, also known as positraction (posi), traction-lok or other names, needs to have traction for both wheels. A locker doesn't care. It's going to lock up both wheels unless one speeds up in a turn. You also generally aren't applying a lot of brute horsepower and torque (unless you're a mud bogger), so you won't be fully engaging the clutches on a posi.
Where a posi works best for offroad is on the front axle, particularly for those without power steering or with weak aqxle components. It's superior to an open differential, but it is inferior to a locker. It's less likely to break components. But as pointed out above, it tends to act as an open differential if you get a wheel in the air. They are strictly a compromise for off roading. Frankly, I think for an FJ40 you can do better with a locker and modifying the transfer case controls so you can go into 2-lo when making a tight turn. I heard someone jokingly call this a "Pacific Northwest ARB".
Unless a fuse blows, or you run out of Co2, or a seal goes bad or a hose leaks (or gets ripped off)Cruiserdrew said:
Don't get me wrong. I Think ARB's are a gret product. I just installed on in my fathers Landrover.
I just prefer lockers that are more reliable, I have said it a bunch of times. There are just oo many failure points on an ARB for my taste.
Personaly, I would do a factory cable locker over a ARB any day of the week..
Mace said:
Can't you only put the cable locker in a full floating axle? That was what I wanted also, but wound up getting ARB's rather thatn getting a whole new axle.
Also, regarding LSD's, I've always been under the impression that they are good choices for the front axle since they won't bind up the steering as much as a locker. Steerability is another good point in favor of using a selectable device if you go with a full locker, I think.
lockers etc
Basically it comes down to what your usage will be and what kind of comprimise you are willing to handle (strength, on/offroad manners, $$$)
. In my fj60 I ran a detroit locker for strength and durability, though I was not concerned with the clunking characteristics of a locker as this was not a daily driver. In my daily driver rigs I always run selectable - arb, ox, etc. They are all good products, but the only one available now and anytime in the near future for LC is ARB. If set up properly they are very reliable. If it comes down to $$$ and nothing else, go with a locker like aussie, locrite, or ez locker. They get the job done, but arent as strong as a Detroit or versatile as an ARB.
Or if your offroad use doesnt lift tires alot and you want something that will drive well on the street, go Auburn gear
Basically it comes down to what your usage will be and what kind of comprimise you are willing to handle (strength, on/offroad manners, $$$)
. In my fj60 I ran a detroit locker for strength and durability, though I was not concerned with the clunking characteristics of a locker as this was not a daily driver. In my daily driver rigs I always run selectable - arb, ox, etc. They are all good products, but the only one available now and anytime in the near future for LC is ARB. If set up properly they are very reliable. If it comes down to $$$ and nothing else, go with a locker like aussie, locrite, or ez locker. They get the job done, but arent as strong as a Detroit or versatile as an ARB.
Or if your offroad use doesnt lift tires alot and you want something that will drive well on the street, go Auburn gear