Loud starter noise when warm on 1HZ!

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B

Blade

10 Year 15 Year
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
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34
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Location
Switzerland
I already found lots of infos to this here, but no real answer WHAT can fix this!

My starter makes about every 30x times when the engine is warm (never did it when cold!) a very loud metallic gear noise, like when you shift without using the clutch. Or like the starting gear would be already spinning before it goes into the flywheel!

It's a 24V starter, so probably not very easy to get down here in Central America. I already replaced the big solenoid copper contacts 1 year ago because the starter kept sticking after the engine startet (scary noise!). This solved the problem, but soon after that startet this metallic gear noise problem.

What can I change to fix this? On the Toyo manual I saw there is some kind of clutch unit in the starter... would it help to change this or who really fixed this problem without replacing the whole starter?

Thank you for any hints!
 
I just took the starter apart... the plunger has a spring that pushes the gear out but NO ball! When I look at the explosion diagram there is supposed to be a ball there... is that maybe the reason why it does this noise sometimes?
 
ok, I checked the flywheel and starter gear... the starter gear looks good to me. The flywheel less!!!

At 2 spots the gear corners are pretty round/cut off! It looks like the working spot of the gear is deeper but not sure if the weird behaving starter did do that? The gears were perfect 50'000km ago when a new HD clutch was installed...
Is this a reason to change the flywheel already??? Or can I somehow change only the gear ring on this 1HZ? I see that you can order it, just no idea how it's mounted to the flywheel...

I will try to find a 5mm ball, not sure if that's the reason that caused this!
The brushes looked like new, LOTS of meat on them, don't think this starter worke a lot, although it's about 17years old...

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The ring gear can be replaced. Cut off the old gear without damaging the flywheel. Put the flywheel in a cooler full of ice. Heat the new ring gear. Work quickly to put the new gear on the flywheel and hold it in the position where the old one was until it cools and locks up. The bad news is the transmission has to come out to get the flywheel out.
When there are burrs on the flywheel like that the bendix can get hung up. Were the starter bolts loose?
If the bendix is not engaging fully it can grind the ring gear. Sometimes all it takes is to lube the bendix. Rotate the gear backwards to expose the shaft. Look for any burrs or rough spots on the shaft or splines. Use some graphite, or wd40, or even a little waterproof grease.
If the bushings or bearings on starter shaft are worn they can cause the bendix to cock and not engage properly. If the solenoid is not getting full voltage it can cause the bendix to fire weakly. If there was supposed to be a ball or some other part that is missing it may reduce the depth that the bendix is supposed to hit.
If there is a competent starter repair shop in your location, they can diagnose the starter. If not you can connect up jumper cables to the starter when it is out and go through the start procedure. Hold down the starter securely. Temporarily, you may get away with lubing the bendix and filing all the burrs off the ring gear. It can be rotated by prying with a large screw driver. Chock the tires and take the transmission out of gear. ;)
 
thanks for the answer!

oh, that is good news... at least I don't need to weld that ring gear... I did do the same on my rearend ring gear.
Do I need a special tool to realign the clutch again?

No, the starter bolts were never loose. But that bolt is missing and I am not sure if I lost it when I replaced the solenoid contacts 1 year ago in Canada. I just know that it started to do this weird sound a while after I replaced the contacts, never before and it does only do it when the engine is hot.

The missing ball is between solenoid plunger and bendix. It will make the plunger make contact/start the electric motor earlier than normal.. this plunger with ball pushes the bendix forward. Now it pushes it 5mm less... not sure if that changes anything on the bendix...

I guess I first will try to lube the bendix and get that ball, then I will see how it behaves. Maybe it will work fine, although the ring gear looks bad. But I will order a new ring gear anyway and see where I can change it... not sure if I should remove the trans by myself on some camping without any car jack due to the weight!

The bearings were all fine, I cleaned them and regreased them. The carbon contacts did look very thick, so I don't think the starter has lots of use, although it's from 1996.
I can't open one of the big philips screws (I hate them!), will order a new one and then drill it out to get to the Bendix. Then I will clean it and regrease everything (I got bearing grease and MOS2 grease with me).
 
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It can be done without a tool or an old input shaft but usually involves a lot of blue words. I have these alignment tools but don't know if a transmission specific tool can be purchased. The old way was if a transmission was going to be junked to take out and save the input shaft.

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Taking out and replacing the transmission without some help and/or jacks is a tough proposition. I hope you can get by for now by getting that bendix to go deeper in to the ring gear.
 
or
just leave it alone and realize it is one of the unique characteristics of your truck ...
 
crushers - that might be ok for car like you use it, but not if you are driving down to Patagonia.... a failing starter is the last thing I can use down here!

Hmm will ask around here if they have that... H55F input shafts for a 1HZ is not really something you can get everywhere ;)
 
could be right
so pull the tranny and clutch and flywheel
you have to get that ring gear back on properly. if it cools and you don't have it in the right spot then how will you remove to straighten again.
just for the record, i have seen guys run with flywheels like that for years before any issues (other than the noise) and then change them out when the clutch needed changing.

best of luck.
BTW, the plastic alignment tools are light, maybe you can get someone to send you one. i might even have one sitting here.
 
yes... changing the ring gear will be my last option... I will get a 5mm ball (should be able to find that somewhere, somehow I guess!) and install it in the starter and see if it still makes this grinding noise!

Next step is get that long bolt that I destroyed and clean and regrease the bendix...

I am still 2 months in Costa Rica. I called Toyota and ordering the ring gear and starter bolt will take 1 month (From Japan). So I still have time to wait and if it still grinds I still can order the ring gear and have it with me, just in case...

Flywheel: when I did the ring & pinion I froze it at -20C .. I would put the flywheel into a big freezer and heat the ring pretty hot with a torch (yeah, I would be careful not to overheat it!) and install it with my cooking gloves ;) That might give me a few extra seconds to install it.. but yeah, not fun if it gets stuck while installing!

But where can you buy such an alignment tool for a 1HZ H55F?
 
the alignment tool came with the clutch kits

shoot me your address direct and if i find one i will mail it over.
 
crushers - please give me a few days to see if I can find it in Europe since someone is going to visit me soon... I will get a few things from the USA and ship it to PAnama, but this will take about 2-3 months till I pick it up. That would be Plan B ;)

Aussie25 - sorry, I don't know what you mean. What would change this? The flywheel stops always at a different spot when you turn off the engine?
 
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