Lost transmission in 2002 LX470 (1 Viewer)

[BrettinSanAntonio]

Lost the transmission in my wife's 2002 LX470 on the way home from a trip last week. 107K miles, always meticulously maintained and serviced. We tow a 3200 lbs Casita travel trailer but other than that, simple daily driver service and light off-roading at Padre Island National Seashore.

I had the cruise set at 68 MPH on level highway and all of a sudden the RPM's redlined as if I knocked the shifter into neutral. I cancelled the cruise and pulled over to the side of the road. The engine ran smooth and it wouldn't go into any gear. The vehicle also rolled when in park. There was a bit of an ugly grinding noise in gear so I shut if off and didn't restart.

I had a tech pull the pan and there were several piles of metal shavings in the pan. Pretty ugly. The trans-fluid was nice and fresh.

Oh, well.

The new/rebuilt trans should be in tomorrow.

 

[1loudLX]

Must be nice to work at Toyota

 

[BrettinSanAntonio]

Must be nice to work at Toyota

Yeah, but even at my cost it's going to be unpleasant.

 

[1loudLX]

I dont doubt that.

Are you going to tear into the old one and take pictures of what failed?

 

[austintx]

hmm my trans service coming up and i wonder if i should drop pan or do the flush...

what did you do ?

 

[Nottajeep]

Man, the 2000 to 2002 trannys continue to take a s***. Toyota should be more forthcoming with this if they know of defective parts. I am not accusing but the evidence sure does stack up. I don't recall a tranny ever crapping out on any LC prior to 200-300K miles in any previous generation.

Plus, this board still doesn't have a 98-99 tranny failure, even with bad service/maintenance reported.

 

[scottm]

Ok, this is a stretch since you obviously know your cars and had a Toyota mechanic you work with check it out. But if it rolls in park, I'd want to be very sure it's not something downstream of the transmission, like the transfer case, or a drive plate sheared. It's possible the parking pawl isn't engaging the transmission output shaft, but not a common thing even on a toasted transmission. Those piles of shavings stuck to the magnets in your pan might be something to worry about, maybe not, got pics? The symptoms you describe just sound too much like a sheared hub drive plate, which is more common than a failed transmission. We just had a thread about a seasoned and well respected Toyota mechanic diagnosing a failed transfer case and ordering a new one, only to discover it was a drive plate problem.

 

[OregonLC]

First it was the 2000 year that had the supposed problem. Now we're theorizing that it's the A343F that's bad all around. Half of me wants to defend this by saying there were more A343F (pre-03) LC's produced than 03-07, at least in the US. The other half of me secretly feels that I should cut bait and trade up to an A750 unit. But then we've seen at least one A750 drop a stinky in the bed...

 

[TheFuzz]

I'm driving mine until it breaks. I might be living in denial, but I refuse to believe that mine is going to inevitably take a dump.

If Loud can whoop on his '00 as much as he does with no issues, then I'm ok I think.

 

[agaisin]

First it was the 2000 year that had the supposed problem. Now we're theorizing that it's the A343F that's bad all around. Half of me wants to defend this by saying there were more A343F (pre-03) LC's produced than 03-07, at least in the US. The other half of me secretly feels that I should cut bait and trade up to an A750 unit. But then we've seen at least one A750 drop a stinky in the bed...

which case of a750 tranny are you referring to? the only cases i can remember seeing were traced to mechanic mistakes.

there seem to be plenty of folks with a343f running just fine with well over 200k miles on original trannies, right?

seems like many of us own secondhand cruisers so who really knows how well the trannies were cared for prior to our ownership - whether correct fluid was used every time, wheter correct fluid level was maintained, whether jr had a habit of jackrabbit starts for fun, etc? just a risk we take when buying used.

i guess dissection of failed trannies tells the story but seems like there's lots of anecdotal info and not a lot of well documented data to analyze. and toyota doesnt have any tsbs etc on the topic so either they're in denial, dont track or there simply aren't enough (statistically significant) cases to conclude there's a weakness. also consider at what mileage the trannies seem to b failing. we might not be satisfied with a tranny that fails at 100k+ miles but have you ever seen a powertrain warranty for more than 100k?

also - apparently there are aftermarket upgrade kits for the a343 to beef it up - would be interesting to know their basis for the parts in the kit, what those parts are, and how dificult/cost effective the upgrade is after all is said and done.

 

[re_guderian]

...seems like many of us own secondhand cruisers so who really knows how well the trannies were cared for prior to our ownership - whether correct fluid was used every time, wheter correct fluid level was maintained, whether jr had a habit of jackrabbit starts for fun, etc? just a risk we take when buying used...

There are also many documented cases of original owners who have done maintenance having the random catastrophic failures, so you can't chalk this up to PO negligence. It's not supposed to have "correct fluid every time" because it's not supposed to be changed out at any meaningful interval that would have prevented these failures - only inspected.

...i guess dissection of failed trannies tells the story but seems like there's lots of anecdotal info and not a lot of well documented data to analyze. and toyota doesnt have any tsbs etc on the topic so either they're in denial, dont track or there simply aren't enough (statistically significant) cases to conclude there's a weakness. also consider at what mileage the trannies seem to b failing. we might not be satisfied with a tranny that fails at 100k+ miles but have you ever seen a powertrain warranty for more than 100k?...

True, the typical mileage to first failure is usually out of warranty, and at 100K+ miles a catastrophic, no prior symptom, family-stranding, vacation ruining, $4K tranny failure may not be considered bad - FOR A FRICKIN' CHRYSLER!!!! - but this is a $60K flagship SUV from Toyota. Stop defending them, it demeans you. I wheel alone pretty frequently. Never out of hiking distance to cell phone reception, but enough that my 2000 LC with 175K on the clock always leaves a nagging thought in the back of my mind of "what if it happened now? or here? or what would the tow bill be after 8 miles of rocky single-track? would I be better off to stip it and burn it if it dies 15 miles out into the desert trails where the tow bill might rival the tranny repair bill? You might just use your LC on the roads where help and dealers are readily available, but I don't. That's not why I bought a LC. I would be PISSED beyond all words if that happens. I EXPECT those thoughts and doubts if I were driving a used Jeep, or a 30 year old off-road vehicle. Not a 100-series Land Cruiser, period. There is no excuse from Toyota on this. At all. We're not talking a about a minor inconvenience of boo-hoo, the wine fridge isn't working. We're talking about running fine one minute, stop the car, go to start it up, and then no movement - no go without a tow truck. Or fine for 10 years, then hear a noise, then - you're done. Wherever you happen to be at that random moment. Even if the failure rate after 10 years, 120K miles is 3-5%, that's still way too high. Is that the chances you want to take while wheeling with your kids out in the desert? No way. I'd choose another vehicle. Rattles and failing AC and body parts will still get you home. Failed tranny is a trip-killer.

I owned a '93 Chrsler Town and Country (first minivan when we started having kids). When the third tranny started slipping big time at 100K, I traded it in on a Honda. That was the biggest piece of crap car (reliability/repair wise), but you know what? I EXPECTED that based on the brand, reputation, and most of all the PRICE I paid for it. I went into that deal with my eyes wide open. At the time there were no other viable solutions. Can you say the same about a 2000 Toyota LC and the number, nature, and cost of the tranny failues we're seeing? No way. Brand, reputation, and price of original vehicle and tranny repair all dictate that while not the majority, based on relatively low sales numbers of LC's this is not an insignificant amount of a major component failues, and not at all typical of the LC brand.

also - apparently there are aftermarket upgrade kits for the a343 to beef it up - would be interesting to know their basis for the parts in the kit, what those parts are, and how dificult/cost effective the upgrade is after all is said and done.

or if it'd do anything to prevent the failures that have happened...

 

[Nottajeep]

First it was the 2000 year that had the supposed problem. Now we're theorizing that it's the A343F that's bad all around. Half of me wants to defend this by saying there were more A343F (pre-03) LC's produced than 03-07, at least in the US. The other half of me secretly feels that I should cut bait and trade up to an A750 unit. But then we've seen at least one A750 drop a stinky in the bed...

The A343F are not bad all around, only certain post 99 models. Which ones exactly are still tbd. Again I repeat the 80 series never have tranny issues like this and it's unacceptable for any LC to have drive train failures w/ < 250k miles. (Even with some neglect)

Btw- the A343 was used in production on the FZJ80 prior to making the UZJ100. It's my understanding the A343 and A343F differences are small.

Sent from my Android using IH8MUD

 

[warpdriv]

You shouldn't of got rid of the 80!!!

 

[lexi4darin]

I'm driving mine until it breaks. I might be living in denial, but I refuse to believe that mine is going to inevitably take a dump.

Fuzz, I'm with you. I'm hoping the mental game brings me victory.

And have Mudders already looked into replacing a blown 4spd trans from a 2000-2002 with the 5spd tranny from the +'03?

 

[lexi4darin]

That's not why I bought a LC. I would be PISSED beyond all words if that happens. I EXPECT those thoughts and doubts if I were driving a used Jeep, or a 30 year old off-road vehicle. Not a 100-series Land Cruiser, period. There is no excuse from Toyota on this. At all. We're not talking a about a minor inconvenience of boo-hoo, the wine fridge isn't working. We're talking about running fine one minute, stop the car, go to start it up, and then no movement - no go without a tow truck. Or fine for 10 years, then hear a noise, then - you're done. Wherever you happen to be at that random moment. Even if the failure rate after 10 years, 120K miles is 3-5%, that's still way too high.

No car is impervious to the demands of racking up hundreds of thousands of miles nor the stresses of moving/stopping/turning/parking 2.5 tonnes. Not even the venerable LC brand.

They're known for reliability which makes the xx% of failures on a trans over a 20 year history "feel" like an anomaly. In many ways it is because we're talking about a very heavy truck that is able to handle extreme driving conditions and circumstances while racking up the miles by the tens and hundreds of thousands at a nearly flawless rate for decades.

But even with all that, lets be realistic with the expectations. We buy these Cruisers, which ever gen, because our chances of failure are low not nil.

 

[agaisin]

There are also many documented cases of original owners who have done maintenance having the random catastrophic failures, so you can't chalk this up to PO negligence. It's not supposed to have "correct fluid every time" because it's not supposed to be changed out at any meaningful interval that would have prevented these failures - only inspected.

True, the typical mileage to first failure is usually out of warranty, and at 100K+ miles a catastrophic, no prior symptom, family-stranding, vacation ruining, $4K tranny failure may not be considered bad - FOR A FRICKIN' CHRYSLER!!!! - but this is a $60K flagship SUV from Toyota. Stop defending them, it demeans you. I wheel alone pretty frequently. Never out of hiking distance to cell phone reception, but enough that my 2000 LC with 175K on the clock always leaves a nagging thought in the back of my mind of "what if it happened now? or here? or what would the tow bill be after 8 miles of rocky single-track? would I be better off to stip it and burn it if it dies 15 miles out into the desert trails where the tow bill might rival the tranny repair bill? You might just use your LC on the roads where help and dealers are readily available, but I don't. That's not why I bought a LC. I would be PISSED beyond all words if that happens. I EXPECT those thoughts and doubts if I were driving a used Jeep, or a 30 year old off-road vehicle. Not a 100-series Land Cruiser, period. There is no excuse from Toyota on this. At all. We're not talking a about a minor inconvenience of boo-hoo, the wine fridge isn't working. We're talking about running fine one minute, stop the car, go to start it up, and then no movement - no go without a tow truck. Or fine for 10 years, then hear a noise, then - you're done. Wherever you happen to be at that random moment. Even if the failure rate after 10 years, 120K miles is 3-5%, that's still way too high. Is that the chances you want to take while wheeling with your kids out in the desert? No way. I'd choose another vehicle. Rattles and failing AC and body parts will still get you home. Failed tranny is a trip-killer.

I owned a '93 Chrsler Town and Country (first minivan when we started having kids). When the third tranny started slipping big time at 100K, I traded it in on a Honda. That was the biggest piece of crap car (reliability/repair wise), but you know what? I EXPECTED that based on the brand, reputation, and most of all the PRICE I paid for it. I went into that deal with my eyes wide open. At the time there were no other viable solutions. Can you say the same about a 2000 Toyota LC and the number, nature, and cost of the tranny failues we're seeing? No way. Brand, reputation, and price of original vehicle and tranny repair all dictate that while not the majority, based on relatively low sales numbers of LC's this is not an insignificant amount of a major component failues, and not at all typical of the LC brand.

or if it'd do anything to prevent the failures that have happened...

it demeans me? i'm not defending toyota or playing sides, I'm trying to be rational. and your childish illogical response makes me laugh.

believe it or not your $60k vehicle is not invincible. you will not find any such vehicle regardless of how highly esteemed or expensive it is. mechanical parts will fail. i agree there are more and less reliable brands and models but perhaps none that meet your lofty expectations.

until root cause analysis has been performed and statistics of how many real failures there have been you sound like any pissed off consumer ranting and raving irrationally.

 

[bamabrock]

First it was the 2000 year that had the supposed problem. Now we're theorizing that it's the A343F that's bad all around. Half of me wants to defend this by saying there were more A343F (pre-03) LC's produced than 03-07, at least in the US. The other half of me secretly feels that I should cut bait and trade up to an A750 unit. But then we've seen at least one A750 drop a stinky in the bed...

LCs imported to the US took a huge nosedive when the sequoia came out. It went from 15k to like 2k a year.

 

[re_guderian]

it demeans me? i'm not defending toyota or playing sides, I'm trying to be rational. and your childish illogical response makes me laugh.

believe it or not your $60k vehicle is not invincible. you will not find any such vehicle regardless of how highly esteemed or expensive it is. mechanical parts will fail. i agree there are more and less reliable brands and models but perhaps none that meet your lofty expectations.

until root cause analysis has been performed and statistics of how many real failures there have been you sound like any pissed off consumer ranting and raving irrationally.

Yeah, sorry, I was in a bad mood this morning. Came in early to work for a meeting that got cancelled at the last minute...

However... the 2000-ish tranny failure issue is not due to regular ol' mechanical wear and tear, nor is it at all characteristic of the previous 40 years of LC history. It is not epidemic, but given the severity of the failure being in direct conflict with the intent of the LC - not leaving you stranded somewhere, it should have been addressed better by Toyota. This isn't some alternator or PS pump that yeah, I expect to wear out and I can easily replace as it shows signs of dying. Toyota knows full well how much this truck weighs, and as evidenced by its better track record in late 80 series and other years of the 100, there is a non-trivial reliability issue. Like I said, I still wheel my 100 out in the boonies, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't listen to the tranny noises, and pay more attention to whether it goes in gear right after a startup on the trail. Those thoughts never even crossed my mind when I had my '95 80-series.

 

[TheFuzz]

And have Mudders already looked into replacing a blown 4spd trans from a 2000-2002 with the 5spd tranny from the +'03?

Yeah, there have been a couple of threads on it...way too labor intensive and expensive to be worth the trouble. You're better off buying a newer truck for the money you'd have to sink into the A750 conversion.

 

[Michael Hanson]

I was looking to buy a 2000 more or less in years. I may just stay with my fj60s and fj62s. I still have not killed a transmission yet. 100,000 and gone and toyota is doing all the service.....! MIke