Pardon my ignorance, first time forum(er?) first time Landcruiser owner. I have a 1995 with full time 4WD. I found a set of manual hubs fairly inexpensively to improve regular road handling as well as maybe improve mileage a little. They pretty much performed as advertised, but the truck didn't accelerate the same at all. It felt like the tranny was slipping like crazy. Then the ABS light flashed and we started to get weird pedal feedback. Locked it back in and it generally returned to normal operation. Does anybody know why?
lock out hubs (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter 95 cruiser
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
You have a lot of reading to do... and welcome
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-...ansfer-case-into-part-time-transfer-case.html
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/362670-advance-adapters-part-time-conversion-mass-buy.html
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-...ansfer-case-into-part-time-transfer-case.html
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/362670-advance-adapters-part-time-conversion-mass-buy.html
oh god...
Well, 1st off, you don't have a transfer case... You have a Center Differential...
The same things between your front and rear tires... Only, at the rear of the transmission, where it splits the drive to the front and rear axle.
You have 3 diffs. Center, front and rear...
Now diffs allow for different rotations without bind, but what lets them permit drive is when the two cancel themselves out... Like when somebody peels out. One wheel has lost traction and you get the screeching sound. And it won't permit drive until the forces equal out.
YOU, when you put the hubs on and unlocked them, transferred ALL the engines power to the weakest wheel, or in your case, axle.
But that's not all... FzJ80's have a Viscus Coupler. A sort of friction induced limited slip... Matter of fact, it's just like a limited slip in that it 1st requires wheel slip in order to work.
And the "slipping like crazy" you feel is all of the engines torque frying that thing in order to try and permit drive.
SWEET! I've been looking all over for one of those...
Well, 1st off, you don't have a transfer case... You have a Center Differential...
The same things between your front and rear tires... Only, at the rear of the transmission, where it splits the drive to the front and rear axle.
You have 3 diffs. Center, front and rear...
Now diffs allow for different rotations without bind, but what lets them permit drive is when the two cancel themselves out... Like when somebody peels out. One wheel has lost traction and you get the screeching sound. And it won't permit drive until the forces equal out.
YOU, when you put the hubs on and unlocked them, transferred ALL the engines power to the weakest wheel, or in your case, axle.
But that's not all... FzJ80's have a Viscus Coupler. A sort of friction induced limited slip... Matter of fact, it's just like a limited slip in that it 1st requires wheel slip in order to work.
And the "slipping like crazy" you feel is all of the engines torque frying that thing in order to try and permit drive.
SWEET! I've been looking all over for one of those...
You're excused... Where did you hear that?
There are TONS of threads on those topics and they pretty much all say the same things...
1: Landcruiser and fuel mileage don't go together... You might get some but IMO you won't get enough to justify neutering it b/c it will no longer have an AWD function... 2WD and 4WD only. I happen to like safety and piece of mind in inclimate weather... So I would NEVER entertain the thought of converting to 2WD.
Just buy a 4Runner at that point. B/c it WILL give you better MPG, and will be part-time 4WD. Not as safe IMO in inclimate weather... And you don't have to pay to convert it...
2: Handling is effected, only it's generally worse. The thing was designed to be AWD... So I have a feeling it's suspension was set-up for it.
3: Man up on the search function... Not being an ass, but there's WAY too much to bring you up to speed on.
This is incorrect. With a 1995 he has a transfer case that has a center differential with a viscous coupler. This is an HF2AV transfer case as opposed to an earlier (pre-1993) model that has the HF2A transfer case. There is a difference.
So it's like a Select Trac or some other BS Chevy TC with a sensor that clicks it in when wheel slip is sensed?
If there is no center diff, then it's a part time case b/c I don't know of another way to divert power to all 4 wheels...
The Viscus coupler fits inside the Center diff so I don't have A CLUE what you're talking about...
Tutorial: removing the viscous coupler (photos)
Quite simply whether it has a Viscous Coupler or not does not take away from the fact it has, or has not, a Center Differential...
Or I'm high and dreaming up all the posts about removing the VC's from the Center Diffs...
The Viscus Coupler is just the "limited slip" for the differential in the center...
I love it when these simple little things that should be in FAQ or common knowledge, turn into 14 page threads
Last edited:
Installing only the manual hubs into your '95 Landcruiser's full time 4WD system to make it like a part time was a waste of time and energy. No disrespect or flaming intended here, but you need to gain a better understanding of AWD or Full Time 4WD vs. Part Time 4WD, which is what previous posts are trying to say. Part Time 4WD is what manual hubs were intended for. They have little or no use on a AWD or Full Time 4WD unless the transfer case is also modified or swapped out.
AWD and Full Time 4WD transfer cases are meant to provide power to both front & rear axles constantly - that's where they get their name. Installing manual or free wheeling hubs, as they are sometimes called, on the front wheels has the same effect on the transfer case as if the front wheels were constantly slipping on ice, while unlocked.
The difference between Part time 4WD transfer cases and Full Time 4WD/AWD transfer cases is how the difference in drive shaft speeds is handled:
Part Time 4WD is simple - there is no difference because they are locked together when the 4WD Hi and Lo positions are selected. So while in 4WD, the drive shafts spin the same speed.
Full Time 4WD and AWD is more complicated. They require a center differential to allow the front and rear drive shafts to spin at different speeds. On pavement and high traction surfaces, this is necessary because the same principal that applies to axle differentials, is also now necessary in the transfer case: Each wheel, axle and drive shaft spin at different speeds while turning.
Off road and slippery surface driving puts different demands on the drive train. All kinds of variations of center and axle differentials exist to handle this challenge. On your '95, if stock, you have a lockable center differential (CDL) and a Viscous Coupler (VC). An additional option is the factory axle lockers (E-Lockers) When you shift your transfer case lever into Lo, it automatically locks the CDL and you should see the indication on your dash along with the ABS light. And if you have E-Lockers you now can engage them if needed with corresponding dash lights.
The '93-'97 transfer cases also had a VC. The Viscous Coupler was intended to limit the slip between the front and rear drive shafts, which happens on slippery surfaces, to provide additional traction, during mild or limited low traction use. Having a VC in the transfer case has had mixed results, depending on use - or in most cases of failure - abuse. The VC will heat up when there are variances in drive shaft speeds. Constant strain on the VC from, say, using different size tires on front and rear axles, or from not locking the CDL in extended low traction situations can result in a seized VC from it being overheated.
What you experienced when you unlocked your manual hubs, that you installed, was your VC being used to move your rig down the road. With the hubs unlocked, the front drive shaft and axles were disconnected from the wheels, as if both had zero traction. The unlocked CDL allows the front and rear drive shafts to spin at different speeds and your VC was allowing some torque to be applied to the rear drive shaft to move your rig down the road. You can install a CDL switch on your dash, to manually lock the transfer case in high. An additional mod called the Pin 7 mod, will give you full manual control of the transfer case. This will allow you to run in Lo with out the CDL locked.
So, with out modifying the transfer case from stock, you can see that the manual hubs are not very functional for improving your Landcruiser's 4WD system. BTW, welcome to the madness!
Last edited:
I thought of lockouts but only for use if I blow out a Newfield/birfield. It would make road side repair so much faster. All you would have to do is unlock the lockout and remove the drive shaft and on you go. Beats taking the broken birf out , filling the axle hole with a rag and duck tape in the dark while its raining in a parking lot in Des Moines, IA.
I found no change in mpg or performance with a 2 wheel drive 80.
I found no change in mpg or performance with a 2 wheel drive 80.
Last edited:
I am a bit rusty on this so correct me if I am wrong.
1) low high selector
2) diff lock selector
3) VC
4) low gear
5) hi gear
6) input from tranny
7) rear out put
8) front out out
4, 1, 5 is the center diff.
If you have lockouts you need to lock the diff #2 other wise the VC #3 need to spin/slip till it locks up. This is the sloping feeling you are feeling.
Just guessing here but if you removed the VC and welded the rear out put shaft to the center diff or weld VC together you would have power to the rear wheels all the time and the front out put would not turn till you lock the diff lock??? Wouldn't this be a true part time t-case now? I am sure this has been gone over in the past, I have no intention to do this mod and will not search the subject.
The second is a pic with out the VC.
1) low high selector
2) diff lock selector
3) VC
4) low gear
5) hi gear
6) input from tranny
7) rear out put
8) front out out
4, 1, 5 is the center diff.
If you have lockouts you need to lock the diff #2 other wise the VC #3 need to spin/slip till it locks up. This is the sloping feeling you are feeling.
Just guessing here but if you removed the VC and welded the rear out put shaft to the center diff or weld VC together you would have power to the rear wheels all the time and the front out put would not turn till you lock the diff lock??? Wouldn't this be a true part time t-case now? I am sure this has been gone over in the past, I have no intention to do this mod and will not search the subject.
The second is a pic with out the VC.
Last edited:
Great pics!!!
#4 is the CTR differential as well.
Priceless
Hilux,
Better start reading more in the 80 section than the mini/4runner section. The HF2A(V) transfer case is a little more advanced than a mini-truck. The HF2A(V) transfer cases do have a center diff and a viscous coupling both of which function to allow the truck to operate in all wheel drive on dry pavement without driveline bind unless the transfer case is locked into 4WD.
BTW...It's spouting off about the unknown that causes threads to turn into multiple pages with only bits of applicable information.
#4 is the CTR differential as well.
Priceless
Hilux,
Better start reading more in the 80 section than the mini/4runner section. The HF2A(V) transfer case is a little more advanced than a mini-truck. The HF2A(V) transfer cases do have a center diff and a viscous coupling both of which function to allow the truck to operate in all wheel drive on dry pavement without driveline bind unless the transfer case is locked into 4WD.
BTW...It's spouting off about the unknown that causes threads to turn into multiple pages with only bits of applicable information.
Last edited:
The thing about lockouts you have to worry about is what length birf you have.
As there is 2 different length birf's for the 80, you need to get the correct lockout out for the birf you have.
What I would like to know is which lockout works with the short and long birf?
Or does the lockout work with both birf's?
As there is 2 different length birf's for the 80, you need to get the correct lockout out for the birf you have.
What I would like to know is which lockout works with the short and long birf?
Or does the lockout work with both birf's?
Kurt,
Your best bet is to check out the part-time thread Onur is working as the birf questions are answered there.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-...ansfer-case-into-part-time-transfer-case.html
Your best bet is to check out the part-time thread Onur is working as the birf questions are answered there.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-...ansfer-case-into-part-time-transfer-case.html
- Thread starter
- #15
Thank you
Just wanted to thank everyone who gave me constructive feedback. I'll be sending the hubs back.
Just wanted to thank everyone who gave me constructive feedback. I'll be sending the hubs back.
What if 1 you install locking hubs. 2 install CDL switch and activate it. 3 remove front driveshaft. Seems like I've heard of that in another thread
Do all that and you have a 2 wheel drive 80 that still gets bad gas mileage.
sign me up, no wear and tear on my front end components and no need for a dc front driveshaft for my 4" lift.
The op already installed the hubs, all he needs now is the CDL (two minute install time according to a recent thread) and take out the driveshaft 10 min.
