LJ78 startup issues (1 Viewer)

[NWONTARIO]

We have hammered on the starter with the key in start position. Did nothing. The starter has been completely disassembled, inspected, and re-installed. It seemed fine. Before the contacts were put in you couldn't even boost the truck. With new contacts it seems that more power will get it to turn over. I'm thinking there is a drain on my battery somewhere. Any common problems with this? I'm getting a new, larger battery today. Also, any ideas why I get a big cloud of black smoke and rough starts?? I have a block heater...doesn't seem to alleviate the problem.

 

[crushers]

rough starts:
have you tested the glow system? even plugged in you still need a glow to start first time of the day.
have you cleaned ALL the connections between the battery and the starter?
have you load tested the battery?

 

[pradocruzer]

Hey NWONTARIO. If you have a volt meter place the leads across the battery. Have someone try to start the truck and hold it in the start position. After a few seconds read the volt meter. you should see a voltage above ten volts. Now go to the starter positive (with the positive volt meter lead) and put the negative volt meter lead to a good clean spot on the engine block. Have your friend hold it in the start position again for the same few seconds as before. the volt meter should read the same as the first test +/- up to .5 of a volt max. if this is true your positive and negative cables are fine. Now place the positive lead of the volt meter and put it on the other side of the starter contact (the short wire that goes into the starter motor) and do the same few second test. You should read the same as the first test +/- up to .5 of a volt. If this is good then the contacts are fine. To do a test on your battery to see if you have a draw disconnect the negative battery cable and put your volt meter positive on your negative battery post and the negative lead of your volt meter on the negative battery cable and look at the meter and see if the meter says a voltage. if the voltage is above 3 to 5 volts (some will argue) you may have a draw. Your ECM and stereo have to hold a memory. If there is a draw pull your courtesy light fuse out first and then pull fuses out until the volts go to zero on your meter still on the battery. If you find the fuse that kills the volts on the meter the draw should be on that circuit.
Also don't forget to disconnect the alternator it can also draw. Before you buy a new battery, borrow a battery from a friend and stuff it in. even a small battery that is fully charged will fire the truck up. If the battery is old just replace it as will be a headache in the future. All this will test the starting system then you can move on to the black smoke ect.. Oh and I have also seen a seizing a/c, alt,power steering pump stop the starter moter from starting the engine.
Good luck again hope this helped.

 

[crushers]

ummm, there is a ground cable from the starter bolt to the frame, right?

 

[pradocruzer]

ummm, The starter is case grounded hence all the bolts holding it to the engine block (as long as they are tight).The ground strap you are talking about is not attached to the starter but the bracket that holds the starter at the back (starters have loads of torque). You can undo the ground strap (that is actually grounding the frame from the engine) and give it to your neighbor lol. That will not stop the truck from starting. There is a main ground from the battery to the engine, from the battery to the body, and from the engine to the frame. This way engineers can ground almost anywhere on the vehicle and not have to send twenty feet of wire back to a battery or ground strips. They also serve a purpose of rust controll and bonding (marine term). This saves money. Were all on the same team here on ih8mud I hope. I love your raw criticism and your to the point attitude also with that human dictionary thing about cruisers you have, relax and enjoy.

 

[crushers]

huh?? did i srep on your toes somehow? if i did, sorry.
the LJ78 i just tore down had a ground from the front of the block to the battery AND a ground bolt from the starter to the frame, as does the HZ, PZ, 3B etc... hence my question.
it was not a dig at you in any way shape or form.

cheers and peace

 

[pradocruzer]

Sorry Wayne. You seem to criticize all Prado owners that have a 2LTE. No hard feelings.

 

[crushers]

nah, i critize the 2LTE, not the owners.

<remember, i owned a number of these s*** engines at one time so i would be critizie myself at the same time.>

 

[dberwin]

I also have some starting issues with mine. I am wondering if this is how they are or if anyone has some feedback. Rather than trying to describe the start I made a small video. Can someone tell me if this is normal or I should try and make it better. Truck has New 3L head(start same before as after), new glow plugs, Glow circut working and confirmed, Injectors removed and reconditioned.

All these did not change the start. It looks like it overfuels and then levels out as the computer takes over.

I was going to change the Temp sensor for the computer on the block just behind the starter but will not worry any more if they all start like this. It also floods itself when -20 or so and not plugged in. This is only on the first start of the day. Constructive comments appreciated. I have Wayne's already.

http://www3.telus.net/public/berwin01/start.wmv

 

[pradocruzer]

That is not normal and I have seen it before on 2lte's and Mitsubishi ect... It is usually dirty injectors and or a week glow plug system. I use diesel injector cleaner additive in mine and when I haven't for a while I will get a small miss here and there while warming up and in goes some cleaner and I'am good for a while. I don't know at the -20 thing as it dosn't get that cold where I live. Minus 5-10 over here and stills fires great. Are you waiting for the glow plug light to go out and then you start?? My glow plug light goes out in 2.5 seconds max. This is not enough time for the glow plug to heat up. It's like a toaster in two seconds all the elements are not red yet. A glow plug is not just for the diesel to ignite off of it also heats the air in the combustion chamber. My suggestion is to put a test light or a volt meter on the glow plug and turn the key on and count how many seconds until the test light goes out. mine is about 6 seconds. At the six second mark fire the truck. You can hear the glow plug relay click off at the six second mark but it is faint and hard to hear. Ignore the glow plug light on the dash for cold start ups. If you hear the long beep in the car you waited two long.
(I use Power Service injector cleaner bought from Canadian Tire.)
Hope this helps

 

[buggyboy7]

Hi Daniel,

I think we are getting off Rowen's topic but I'm glad you put that video on. Mine is exactly the same and has been that way ever since I did the head.(??) Pradocruzer.. with new glows, rebuilt and tested injectors and fuel additive(every tank) it made no differance. I have just lived with it but sure would like to solve the problem. Iv'e been thinking of driving down to RADD and see if John knows what's up. I know another guy here in Courtenay that has the same rough start. It seems odd so many 2LTE's have this same condition.
OH OH! This will be Wayne's cue.
BTW Daniel, how's the air ride holding up?

Keith

 

[dberwin]

I understand the full glow plug system and it runs at 12 volt for 7 seconds and 6 volt for some time after. The light in the dash is much to soon to try and start. I also have run the glow system with a jumper direct from the battery for 10 seconds and it does not make a difference. It seems to have too much fuel as there is a black patch of carbon behind it after a cold start most noticable in clean snow. I have tryed bypassing the air cut off in the intake as well with little change. Has anyone tried to change the temp sensor in the block behind the starter.

The local Toyota guy keeps saying to change the pump but for the $1800 it is alot of money if that is not the problem. I still feel like it is a computer problem but so little information is available it is hard to diagnose the computer. I am about ready to go mechanicl so someone can work on them.

The air bags work great and have had no problems. I have put them to the test a couple times with 30 pounds in them and a load I would not have carried before. I go get fuel with 9 20L cans and fill the tank. Just sits normal. I don't change them often enough to justify the electric pump so have a small mountain bike pump and it takes just a minute to air them up if I need them.

 

[crushers]

looks normal in the vid to me...
i wouldn't worry about it.

I also have some starting issues with mine. I am wondering if this is how they are or if anyone has some feedback. Rather than trying to describe the start I made a small video. Can someone tell me if this is normal or I should try and make it better. Truck has New 3L head(start same before as after), new glow plugs, Glow circut working and confirmed, Injectors removed and reconditioned.

All these did not change the start. It looks like it overfuels and then levels out as the computer takes over.

I was going to change the Temp sensor for the computer on the block just behind the starter but will not worry any more if they all start like this. It also floods itself when -20 or so and not plugged in. This is only on the first start of the day. Constructive comments appreciated. I have Wayne's already.

http://www3.telus.net/public/berwin01/start.wmv

 

[NWONTARIO]

I'm not worried at all about getting off the original topic. The more topics we cover the more we get to learn about our vehicles! The startup in the video is exactly how mine starts in the morning. Mine might even be a bit worse. I always get a big cloud of dark exhaust and if I don't give it a bit of fuel it stalls after 4 or 5 seconds. When I bought the vehicle, the previous owner told me he replaced 2 glow plugs, but I thought ALL glow plugs were supposed to be replaced at the same time. I don't know if this would really make a difference, but I thought I'd put it out there.....I was also wondering how much more power an intercooler would give me? Sorry for the new topic, just thought someone might have an idea!

 

[crushers]

at stock boost settings, none.
if you increase to 14 psi then an intercooler will reduce the temp of the charge.
below 14 psi an intercooler is bling and not a need.

 

[pradocruzer]

Hey dberwin. Pulled out my ecm this morning and got some resistance values for you. The wiring diagram I have sucks and the wire color dosn't match on mine. I used a 10k ohm scale. With all the connectors unplugged on the ecm I went to the large connector and stuck the black wire from my dvom to the brown wire two down from the top of the connector. That brown wire was the common for all the resistance values I'am going to give you.
1- green with white stripe = .58 (sensor on the inj pump)
2- green with black stripe = .51 (sensor on inj pump)
3-yellow + 4.11 (iat sensor)
4- white with blue stripe = 1.02 ?
5- red with a blue stripe = 4.09 ?
6- yellow with a blue stripe = 2.76 ?
7- blue with a red stripe = 1.98 ?
I also unplugged the temp sensor on the thermostat housing and did the first start of the day and it fired as good as usual no smoke and no missing then plugged it in with no difference.
These tests were done at 9 degrees celsius out side temp.
If you find a resistance that is not in the ball park of mine then that circuit may be at fault.
Good luck.

 

[kkriese]

There is some really good information and diagrams on the 2LTE engine on the following site:

2.4 Maintenance

great for describing minor repairs and modifications like blocking off the EGR.

Good luck.

 

[everbret]

In regard to the black smoke start for the first start of the day, I had this same problem until I installed my inline rad heater. I noticed it occuring more and more often as the temp went down in Revelstoke approaching winter. After I installed the rad heater and would put it on for 2-3 hrs in the morning before the car started, it would let out a tiny puff of black smoke and then no more. This even worked at -15 or -20 C.

However, it does something also. After around five minutes, the idle begins to drop from ~900 rpm toward ~700 rpm which is the usual idle at warm temperatures. I noticed that as it begins this drop, it does a couple chugs, then the idle goes up again. It does this a few times until (i presume) the engine is warm enough that the low idle speed does not cause this. After this, there are no problems. Does anyone else notice this when they are starting in the cold?

 

[prado t]

If one of these older Toy diesels doesnt puff a bit of black during initial start-up then I would be worried . That is perfectly normal. I used to have one of these too. I opened up the exhaust on mine and that miss was there also especialy when the hand throttle was at 1100rpm.
Here are a few shots, The outside temp was 40C plus on that slope.These shots are about 4 years old. I was trying to catch up to our Coastal Cruiser club members a mountan range over. Those with their locked 74s and V8 double locked 40s took the gravel logging road and I took the short -cut go figure. On the first pic. it was fairly steep the camera doesnt do the grade justice.
The second was loose sand very soft , had to pull cable of course.
The third - draggin the prado up the bank , very hot and dry. Those shots were a couple of weeks before the rear ARB locker and OME 2.5 came in. I miss those days.

 

[everbret]

Hi all,

So, I'd been struggling with this same issue for a while, and I may have come to a conclusion. While playing with things under the hood with the car running the other day (not knowing what most things do), I found something interesting. When I pushed down on the screw-device in the following pictures for only a second, I'd get the same effect as when the car started and the whole chug-chug thing happened that everyone is mentioning here. I then realized that if I loosened the screw in the pictures (it is adjustable), this made the issue dissapear. I no longer have the problem when starting, or when the idle goes down after a few minutes when the engine is warm. I have no clue what this device is, and perhaps someone can enlighten me to its purpuse. All I know is that I don't have the start-up issues anymore.

Cheers