Line Swapping

[lshobie]

Thanks for the link. I just scanned through it, Ill give it a thorough read after soccer practice.



I fail to see why they should have been running 7/16 based on 1 failure of 3/8. Considering the remainder of the tests were done with another section of 3/8, I agree with their conclusion that it was either a line imperfection or foreign material in the line. They did not reach even the minimum strength of 3/8 in any of their tests. I also fail to see why the line breaking "was to be expected." The diameter of the drum is pretty close to what Samson states is required minimum sheave diameter for 3/8 SK75, so the "sharp bend" at the drum is a moot point. 7/16, technically speaking, would need an even larger drum diameter. And thousands of people are running 3/8 SK75 on thousands of winches around the world and I doubt its commonplace to have the line fail at the drum. Otherwise it would be common talk among forums such as this.


Other than almost all of them going above their rated capacities??? And I call the test a success if the testing showed what the manufacturer states as being correct. Another critical point of information was temperature readings.... A must know if you are running synthetic rope.

EDIT: Ok, so they only tested them to their rated capacities. Other than that seemed like an unbiased test and tells me that any of the manufacturers tested are reputable.

Best I can tell the line that WARN sells for approved use on their winches is a Spectra fiber. Not quote as strong as size for size Amsteel Blue, but only by a couple thousand pounds.

They should have been running 7/16's so they could see what the winch could max out at - mainly so the rope won't break as they are testing the winch not the rope. The line broke at the drum, it is because of the angle - I have seen it multiple times and with the same rope, the imperfection is a cop out. The reason the rope didn't break on any other tests was because they didn't max the winch out. I use 7/16's on a 1.5 inch solid drum on my 8274, it pulls like mad and have never had a break - theoretically it should pull double the 3 inch stock drum - imagine the angle on that pull.

Meh, I think destructive testing was in order, I want to see what a winch can really do not what a manufacturer suggests. I am sure the 8274 pulls over 10K easily, I may just track down a dynamometer and do some real world testing myself.

I wasn't saying the test was biased, I just said that it didn't meet my standards for field testing. I am sure I could test those in a very different manner as most people who really run their winches hard do, and I know what the result would be

It's just my opinion, not bashing their test - just more could have been done.

 

[opie74]

They should have been running 7/16's so they could see what the winch could max out at - mainly so the rope won't break as they are testing the winch not the rope. The line broke at the drum, it is because of the angle - I have seen it multiple times and with the same rope, the imperfection is a cop out. The reason the rope didn't break on any other tests was because they didn't max the winch out. I use 7/16's on a 1.5 inch solid drum on my 8274, it pulls like mad and have never had a break - theoretically it should pull double the 3 inch stock drum - imagine the angle on that pull.

I know we all like to see carnage, but if you stop and think about the money invested in this test and somebody had to front it, I think its fair to assume someone didnt want to have to pay for a bunch of stuff breaking. But the beauty is that there is nothing stopping you from aquiring all the gear to do some destruction testing on the five winches using 7/16 line.

The rope did not break at the drum due to any angle. From all technical aspects there is nothing wrong/improper with any angle at or around the drum when using SK75 in 3/8. Accprding to what I read, they took a 9500 pound winch to 12,000 pounds and thats when the line snapped. According to the Samson, the MIN strength of 3/8 is 17,600. In order for your theory to stand, when they took the 12,000 pound WARN to 12,000, the line should have snapped then, too.

Meh, I think destructive testing was in order, I want to see what a winch can really do not what a manufacturer suggests. I am sure the 8274 pulls over 10K easily, I may just track down a dynamometer and do some real world testing myself.

Thats an expensive proposition. Id love to see it though.

I wasn't saying the test was biased, I just said that it didn't meet my standards for field testing. I am sure I could test those in a very different manner as most people who really run their winches hard do, and I know what the result would be

It's just my opinion, not bashing their test - just more could have been done.

I didnt mean to insinuate you thought the test was biased, sorry bout that. I think in the world today when tests like this are done that show the number manufacturers are putting out are correct, its a win. We all know they didnt max out any of the winches so its safe to assume they will all go over their rated capacities. Perhaps they have factored in the loss of strength due to the increasing diameter of the drum as the rope is laid in and the rating is on the last wrap instead of the first wrap??

 

[lshobie]

Opie, I'd argue about the money invested, maybe they bought the winches and maybe they will chime in to confirm that but I suspect the winches may have been on loan or donated - many manufacturers do that, I've just been send a product recently to be installed, tested and reviewed with the results being posted on youtube - that is real life testing, done by Joe public and posted in an open forum.

As far as the winch line breaking goes we had the same thing happen with that line at the drum, re-fasten and resnap, refasten then resnap, and so on until the line was un-useable. Maybe no the angle, maybe a bad batch, but if a line breaks at 12000 that is rated for higher then further testing needs to be done on that line.

I'll also say that when it comes to tests and swag, reviews etc, if you give things a s***ty review it is most unlikely that you will get further products to test in the future - there is a fine line. Would you like to see a longfield axle tested to normal field use or to destruction? Ask Bobby Longfield and he'll tell you the answer himself - to complete destruction, in the 4x4 off road world we need to know what something can really handle in my opinion.

 

[lshobie]

I'll buy a dyno this summer and test my winch at a minimum, I know I have pulled well over 14000 pounds with it (8274), so I'll recreate that pull with the dyno. And if any of my local club members want to test their winches I'll do it - I know of a guy with a cheapy chinese winch that he wouldnt mind destroying so that will be on the block

And in true lshobie fashion I will make a video for youtube of the whole event!

 

[Jason YY]

Old thread -
I have a M12000 , looking at installing 7/16 Amsteel blue
Question would 3/8 be a better choice, am planning on buying the line and splicing the eye/ with a thimble using a Factor 55 end

 

[1911]

Old thread -
I have a M12000 , looking at installing 7/16 Amsteel blue
Question would 3/8 be a better choice, am planning on buying the line and splicing the eye/ with a thimble using a Factor 55 end

3/8" is stronger, but you won't fit as much on the drum as you could of 7/16", so I guess it depends on how long of pulls you might typically do. You can always carry an extension line if you ever need to do a long pull; that's what I do.

 

[Jason YY]

The 7/16 is 21500 minimum strength 11mm

3/8 is 17,600 “. “ 9.5mm
Neither is cheap, I have a bunch of credit at the local marine store. It is cheaper than buying a ready made line, plus I can put on the “right length” rather than 85 ft or 125 if that makes sense.
Other than less winch line, any other drawbacks to using the larger size?

 

[george_tlc]

3/8" is stronger, but you won't fit as much on the drum as you could of 7/16", so I guess it depends on how long of pulls you might typically do. You can always carry an extension line if you ever need to do a long pull; that's what I do.

3/8 = 6/16 < 7/16



cheers,
george.

 

[1911]

3/8 = 6/16 < 7/16



cheers,
george.

OK, I must have confused 5/16 with 7/16, thanks for the correction.

 

[gnob]

Stupid fractions