I don't have much experience with winches so I'm reading a lot here. I have a new M8000 on my 40 and an old M10000 that came on my pickup. The winchline on the M10000 has some flat spots and fraying, so I'd like to replace it. The winch on the 40 is likely to see a lot more use than the one on my truck, so I'm thinking I'd like to invest in a synthetic line on that one. Is it a bad/dangerous idea to install the 5/16 line from the M8000 on the M10000, or is there enough strength there to work safely on the M10000? If this is a stupid question I apologize, but it would be really extra stupid to make the switch without asking and then hurt somebody. Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this.
Line Swapping
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I'd recommend sticking with 3/8" synthetic line on the M10000 for two reasons - the M10000 is more powerful than the M8000 and the 3/8 line also gives you a bit of safety factor if the line starts to fray, especially on the more powerful winch.
For the M8000 either 5/16 @ 100' or 3/8 @ 85' would work. I run 3/8x85' on my M8000 and am very happy with it.
For the M10000 I'd stick with 3/8 @ 125'.
I would not recommend putting 5/16 wire rope on a 10,000 pound winch. That's dangerous.
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That's what I needed to know. Thanks guys.
Depends. If any drum has had steel cable on it you will have to smooth the drum before you install synthetic. Burrs from the steel cable will prematurely abrade and shorten the life of your new synthetic line. Also pay attention to your fairlead because it can be chewed up too from your cable line. Hawse fairleads work well as well as rollers but with rollers you have to makes sure the rollers are smooth and most of all make sure the line won't get pinched between the rollers. You need enough overlap on the rollers to keep the line from pinching.
Planetary winches (internal drum brake) also create heat when powering out, especially under load - so - don't power out for long distances. Use power out to relieve tension then free spool if possible.
I was thinking in a report that I was reading about winches over 10K using rope and the rope puting more stress that the drum can hanle on one spot of the drum ( under full load ) and bending it .. ( australian mag Battle of winches ) IIRC it happen to the endurance ..
I have never seen it happen, and never talked to anyone who has had it happen to them, but I have heard that if you don't properly spool synthetic line onto a very strong winch that the synthetic line can put undue stress on the drum and dent it. Just like most parts of recovery and recovery gear people don't take the proper time to take care of their gear. Cable can get crossed up just as easily but since it is stiffer it won't fall between wraps as easily.
IIRC Warn only approves one of their synthetic winch lines for use on their winches - and no one else's synthetics. I need to look up the specs of their line and see the difference between it and Amsteel Blue /Dyneema SK-75.
I run Amsteel Blue on both my Warn M8000 and 8274-50 and haven't had any problems FWIW.
here is the pic .. rope in the endurance ..
Ive heard of this happening but never actually seen it.
It happens because of the lack of friction of synthetic rope compared to wire rope. Synthetic rope will constrict around the drum more than wire rope. What looks odd to me in the pic is where it happened and the type of damage. It looks as if the drum took a blunt force impact rather then being crushed. I also cant see synthetic rope scratching up the drum like it is.
Do you have a link to a site you got that picture from?
Opie hit the nail on the head with the synthetic being slicker - if not wound properly it can slip between itself and put extra pressure on the drum. IIRC the Endurance is a 12,000 lb winch and Warn only approves their synthetic line for 9,500 lb winches and less and nothing above 9,500.
I'd love to test an Endurance with the MasterPull Superline XD in 3/8". It is much stiffer than traditional synthetic line and might (might, only might) not damage the drum as easily...
I'd love to test an Endurance with the MasterPull Superline XD in 3/8". It is much stiffer than traditional synthetic line and might (might, only might) not damage the drum as easily...
And check the Overland Journal 2009 Gear Review (I think that is the right issue) for the winch test. Something very similar happened.
Didn't realize the entire article was online. I read a good bit of it last night from my hardcopy.
I know Overland Journal is against the cheaper, Chinese winches (they state this in the article) but I'd love to see an unbiased review of the cheaper Chinese winches against the domestic, higher priced winches. I run two Warns (M8000 and 8274-50) and don't plan on buying one of the cheaper winches but would still like to see a comparison.
To me they lost cred when they didnt test the max unpublished pull of the winches - I want to know what a winch can pull in real life and if it fails (mechanically or electrically under full load). The dyneema breaking was to be expected on a sharp turn at teh drum - they should have been running 7/16's on dyneema - that's a no brainer.
The testing started well - but in the end didn't tell us anything except that the winches performed for the most part as the manufacturer stated.
Meh.
The testing started well - but in the end didn't tell us anything except that the winches performed for the most part as the manufacturer stated.
Meh.
I'd like to see the comparison of the chinese made winches too and especially if the comparison included the new VR line of warn winches.
From what I've read the new Warn VR winches are not fully Chinese. They have some Chinese components, some American components, and are assembled in America.
VR are putting new standard about winches ( or at least I hope so .. good for us ) and would be absolutely awesome seen 'em at work ..
I also would like to see big winches .. 15K and 16.5K in a real world test ..
I also would like to see big winches .. 15K and 16.5K in a real world test ..
Thanks for the link. I just scanned through it, Ill give it a thorough read after soccer practice.
I fail to see why they should have been running 7/16 based on 1 failure of 3/8. Considering the remainder of the tests were done with another section of 3/8, I agree with their conclusion that it was either a line imperfection or foreign material in the line. They did not reach even the minimum strength of 3/8 in any of their tests. I also fail to see why the line breaking "was to be expected." The diameter of the drum is pretty close to what Samson states is required minimum sheave diameter for 3/8 SK75, so the "sharp bend" at the drum is a moot point. 7/16, technically speaking, would need an even larger drum diameter. And thousands of people are running 3/8 SK75 on thousands of winches around the world and I doubt its commonplace to have the line fail at the drum. Otherwise it would be common talk among forums such as this.
Other than almost all of them going above their rated capacities??? And I call the test a success if the testing showed what the manufacturer states as being correct. Another critical point of information was temperature readings.... A must know if you are running synthetic rope.
EDIT: Ok, so they only tested them to their rated capacities. Other than that seemed like an unbiased test and tells me that any of the manufacturers tested are reputable.
Best I can tell the line that WARN sells for approved use on their winches is a Spectra fiber. Not quote as strong as size for size Amsteel Blue, but only by a couple thousand pounds.
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