Leveling my engine conversion FJ80

[80t0ylc]

I'm impressed with the fit & finish of the conversion. Looks like a professional job all around. Numbers are impressive, too. However, I'd like to see how it holds up over time and normal (maybe even a little abnormal) usage. Call me a skeptic or whatever, but the 3FE and 1JZ engines have both proven themselves over time. Nothing is perfect and both these engines were far from it. Your conversion sounds good in all areas, almost too good. Let's see how it passes the test of time. I'd be interested in seeing the HP & torque curves for comparison.

 

[TwoTonic]

Wow. I find this very interesting. Sorry if I missed it from the pictures, but what did you do with the engine and transmission mounts? Were you able to utilize the stock one? And was Marks kit specifically for this engine/tranny combo, or was it for the tranny?

Hey, Pookie. Love the tagline about Land Rovers-- I changed so many alternators on that Disco-1 that I started to wonder why it wasn't mounted with quick-release clips-- or better still, explosive bolts. I finally threw in the towel the day it took 3 hours to change a tail-light bulb.

We did have to use the rotary cutter to get rid of the original engine mounts for the 3FE-- and replaced them with universal GM mounts welded directly to the frame. The Mark's Kit was awesome (thank you Denny). I think it's their MFK-1195 (A?) for the Th350/4L60 series to the Toyota transfer case. We didn't have to use any of their engine adapters-- and used most of the GM accessories, which I'd gotten with the H3 engine, so used the GM accessories brackets and serpentine. The Mark's kit, thoughtfully, includes a bracket which presents the T-Case lever through the original hole. Can't tell the difference from up top.

We did get the Atlas motor complete with the transmission and torque convertor already mounted and ready to install-- we had to do some work at the tailshaft housing to mount the Mark's adapter and then the T-Case. No machining required back there, though, and it all mounted up perfectly.

I can post photos of the engine and transmission mounts sometime if you're interested.

The conversion did work out even better than anticipated-- tuning was a breeze, too. I'd just say that the classical SBC conversion might have a more modern alternative. For 250 HP, great driveability and better fuel economy this is a sweet combo.

 

[TwoTonic]

I'm impressed with the fit & finish up the conversion. Looks like a professional job all around. Numbers are impressive, too. However, I'd like to see how it holds up over time and normal (maybe even a little abnormal) usage. Call me a skeptic or whatever, but the 3FE and 1JZ engines have both proven themselves over time. Nothing is perfect and both these engines were far from it. Your conversion sounds good in all areas, almost too good. Let's see how it passes the test of time. I'd be interested in seeing the HP & torque curves for comparison.

Points all well-taken. The 3FE (like the 2JZ) is a legend for being over-built. I kind of felt bad pulling that 3FE with only 240,000 miles-- compression was still perfect and I'm sure it would have run to 400,000 miles easily. But, we wanted to take a shot with the Atlas and so far so good. That same architecture has been used on a bunch of GM trucks (Canyon, Colorado, Trailblazer, Envoy, etc) and I think has held up pretty well, but we'll see how the long-term reliability numbers come in... I'm always amazed to see the FJ80s listed on Ebay with 450,000 miles and original engine internals. That's reliability.

I'm probably most worried about the replacement engine's VVT technology-- BMW got burned badly with VANOS when it first came out, so time will tell if GM got that right or not when they put it in Atlas.

The gear-driven cam on the 3FE was amazingly strong-- basically never see valve train failures in those motors if you keep oil in 'em.

 

[lt1fire]

Look clean and if you are happy with it that is the important thing.
A few years ago I posted up the question of whether or not he I6 out of the trailblazer would be a good swap (since I had a buddy that was parting one out) I got ripped to shreads by some about how dumb of a swap that could be. Glad to see some others think out side the box. I love my 3FE but at the same time there are plenty of motors that would give me more power and better mpg at the same time.

 

[dogcatch'n]

hp/lb...

how fast a vehicle moves, say from 0 to 60 mph is based on one primary factor and that is "horsepower per weight"....

you have more horse power less weight...this is always good..

it has to move faster....

now that being said, only time will tell how long the I-5 engine will last...and that is another suject all together...

but I must say, that this looks like a good conversion ...IMO..

 

[TwoTonic]

Look clean and if you are happy with it that is the important thing.
A few years ago I posted up the question of whether or not he I6 out of the trailblazer would be a good swap (since I had a buddy that was parting one out) I got ripped to shreads by some about how dumb of a swap that could be. Glad to see some others think out side the box. I love my 3FE but at the same time there are plenty of motors that would give me more power and better mpg at the same time.

I'm not sure there's an 'perfect' swap, either... Just depends on what you want out of the truck. I have other trucks for towing, so this is mainly a daily driver with better power, torque, fuel economy-- so I'm happy so far. These Atlas motors clearly don't have anything like the track record the 3FE or 1FZ do-- but the H3 has pretty good off-road credibility.

The Atlas is helped by a static compression ratio of 10:1 and a pretty under-square bore/stroke geometry. It gets a lot out of its 3.7L and light weight, especially with the VVT which doesn't trade off low-end torque for high-end power. I guess I'll know after a couple hundred thousand miles. (For comparison sake, the 1FZ has a 9:1 CR, which makes it a nice candidate for that TRD supercharger, and the 3FE in its final form was a soft 8:1.)

I have a lot of admiration for the Toyota engines, BTW, but we do plan to do a couple more swaps into FJs-- one a LT1/4 hot rod and one a Duramax tow rig.

Different strokes for different folks, as Tunnell said years ago.

 

[Lka1988]

I have a lot of admiration for the Toyota engines, BTW, but we do plan to do a couple more swaps into FJs-- one a LT1/4 hot rod and one a Duramax tow rig.

This one I gotta see. I would LOVE a Duramax in my 80.

 

[ThePookieBear]

I talked to a guy the other day that said I should throw a 7.3L Powerstroke in my 80. Hmmm... Axle upgrade? . But I think the Duramax's are lighter, and are like 6.9. That would be fun.

 

[concretejungle]

I'm impressed with the fit & finish up the conversion. Looks like a professional job all around. Numbers are impressive, too. However, I'd like to see how it holds up over time and normal (maybe even a little abnormal) usage. Call me a skeptic or whatever, but the 3FE and 1JZ engines have both proven themselves over time. Nothing is perfect and both these engines were far from it. Your conversion sounds good in all areas, almost too good. Let's see how it passes the test of time. I'd be interested in seeing the HP & torque curves for comparison.

Don't forget, your tax dollars are going to help hold up the warranty for this puppy!!

 

[TwoTonic]

This one I gotta see. I would LOVE a Duramax in my 80.

The motor's a DMax LLY that's been on the shop floor for awhile. 6.6L turbo. We're planning to go a little different direction on the transmission, though, since we have a new ZF 6-speed to mate to the DMax. Everybody asks about the Allison automatic, which is a nice transmission, but the ZF is incredibly stout and has a very broad set of ratios across its 6 speeds. Sixth is a 0.50 Overdrive, so we're wondering what kind of fuel economy we'll get in an FJ80 on 33s with that OD combo. DMax hits peak torque at only 1800 RPM, so we are hoping it will cruise on the highway in the 1600-1800 RPM range.
The 80 is a lot lighter than the HD series 2500/3500 GM iron the DMax was meant to pull around too.

The 80 differentials are pretty tough, so hope they'll stand up to the torque.
Clearance will likely be an issue, so are thinking we'll need at least a 4" lift.

To go to the ZF gearbox we'll need to add clutch hardware to the 80. Anyone have a line on a source for clutch pedal, linkage, and master cylinder for an FJ80? A manual was offered Down Under, wasn't it?

 

[concretejungle]

do a search on Bjowett's 6 speed conversion. I can't remember if it was in Harcore or over here in 80's tech.

 

[Jule]

The one side-effect of the conversion is that the truck is a lot lighter-- we took about 200# off the nose.

Doesn't that I-5 have an aluminium block? I am guessing that you took off a lot more than 200 lbs. I would guess it would be around 400lbs. Did you weigh both engines? I have been looking for the weight of 3FE motor (and the FZJ), all I have found is that the TLC I6s are really heavy, like about the same as a BB Chevy (roughly 700-800 lbs).

Generally the FJs rear sits an inch or two higher than the front. So if you front is now 3 inches higher than before, you took a lot of weight off of it. Assuming the stock spring rate is 100 lbs/in (I have no idea what it really is) and the front is now 3 inches higher, that would be 600 lbs lighter (100 lbs/in*3 in *2 springs).

Anyway, taking 400-500 lbs off would certainly help your mileage. Glad you are happy with the swap.

 

[ThePookieBear]

I think that Specter off road has manual hardware setups for 80's. But, their prices are usually beyond reason. You may be able to do better making friends with an Aussie member and having him hook you up with a setup from a junked one. Maybe ship up several and sell them off to get your money back.

 

[locrwln1]

Very nice conversion.

I DD an '06 trailblazer with the 4.2l and I love that thing. Does give you something to think about. I average 20 mpg driving it like I stole it and the rear cargo area is loaded up with my stuff everyday. Now it doesn't weigh what my armored up 80 weighs, but it still gets up and goes. Very impressive motor. Mine is just a baby on mileage, only 58k.

Jack

 

[Firedog]

To go to the ZF gearbox we'll need to add clutch hardware to the 80. Anyone have a line on a source for clutch pedal, linkage, and master cylinder for an FJ80? A manual was offered Down Under, wasn't it?

FJ-60 clutch pedal, mount, and master cylinder is a pretty easy swap.
We are doing one now, we kept the FZJ 80 brake pedal and just added the clutch, the brake pedal will be cut down the the proper width, and the FJ60 arm had to be bent,

 

[Dusty]

great work with this conversion. any conversion is a lot of work. But to say this I5 will run around the 1fzfe is a littte generous. the I5 in the h3 made only 220hp until 2007 when it made 242.

 

[TwoTonic]

Doesn't that I-5 have an aluminium block? I am guessing that you took off a lot more than 200 lbs. I would guess it would be around 400lbs. Did you weigh both engines? I have been looking for the weight of 3FE motor (and the FZJ), all I have found is that the TLC I6s are really heavy, like about the same as a BB Chevy (roughly 700-800 lbs).

Generally the FJs rear sits an inch or two higher than the front. So if you front is now 3 inches higher than before, you took a lot of weight off of it. Assuming the stock spring rate is 100 lbs/in (I have no idea what it really is) and the front is now 3 inches higher, that would be 600 lbs lighter (100 lbs/in*3 in *2 springs).

Anyway, taking 400-500 lbs off would certainly help your mileage. Glad you are happy with the swap.

Here is a major <THWACK> from me hitting my forehead-- Yeah, I hadn't thought about it before, but it's probably a lot more than a 200# diet. That Atlas 3.7L is an all-AL design (block and heads), and quite compact. We have done several LS1/6 projects and those V8 motors usually come in, dressed, at 420-430 pounds. I didn't weigh the Atlas before we installed it, but I'm going to guess 365-375 pounds.
The transmission is a lot lighter than the Toyota auto, too. If the 3FE came in at 750, between Atlas and 4L60, we could easily be 400# lighter than the FJ80.

Between the Atlas' willingness to rev (redline's 6300 and it makes great torque all the way to fuel cut-off. Very different feel from the 3FE's redline at 4500 and asthma above 4K) , having 90 more HP, and perhaps weighing 450# LESS than the FJ80-- it all probably explains why the converted truck has so much more pep. It feels a lot lighter because it is.

I have a virgin FJ80 down at the shop-- I'll have to run both rigs across the scale sometime to figure it out exactly. I'll post the result.

Thanks for pointing out the mass of the 3FE. It's a lot heavier than I'd thought.

 

[TwoTonic]

great work with this conversion. any conversion is a lot of work. But to say this I5 will run around the 1fzfe is a littte generous. the I5 in the h3 made only 220hp until 2007 when it made 242.

We did get the 3.7L, in 2007 H3 trim, so it's spec'd at 242 HP. In accordance with GM practice, I think that's now spec'd against the newer SAE guidelines, so the difference relative to the 3FE's (155) and 1FZ's (212) numbers are probably a little greater... We haven't gone nuts with mods-- a K&N Cold Air Intake and some timing tweaks are about it-- so probably aren't getting much more than 250HP out of it. The VVT makes it a pretty flexible motor, though, and it will pull hard up to its 6300RPM redline-- makes most of its torque down to 1750, yet with the cam-phasing can keep its TQ output up to 6000+. I think the FJ80 redline is at 4500, and my FZJ80 was 5000?

Having owned FJ80s, an FZJ80 (as well as FJ60 and FJ40) there's no question that the FZJ80 was the most powerful and refined of the bunch-- they are genuinely great trucks and the 1FZ is a super motor. But, in the FZJ that 212 HP was pretty taxed moving a 4800#+ curb weight truck. I don't know that "runs circles" would be the right phrasing, but the Atlas power/weight in an FJ80 is substantially better.
I do know that on the same (long) grade I drive all the time (over 2000' elevation gain in less than 5 miles) the stock FJ80 was max'ed at 48MPH, the FZJ80 would struggle to hold 65MPH and this Atlas FJ80 will easily blow past 75-- which it will readily hold in 3rd gear with the higher revs it can run to.

Not all of this can be explained with 40 extra HP (even new-SAE HP). As Jule pointed out, though, a lot of it's weight. We're likely 400-450 pounds lighter than a stock FJ80 (which TLC4x4's site says had a curb weight of 4595). Relative to the FZJ80, the disparity is even greater-- with the added equipment on the FZJ, its weight (again, according to TLC4x4) went up to 4760. So, this Atlas FJ80 could be 600+ lighter than an FZJ--- that's getting pretty substantial, especially with a 40HP power advantage.
So, by most of the objective power-weight criteria, the Atlas truck "should" be quite a bit quicker and faster-- The hill-climb test shows it able to hold a lot higher climb velocity-- that likely translates into the usual metrics like better 0-60, 1/4, top speed (Although I suppose a forum like IH8MUD is a strange place to talk about trap speeds.) etc.

So, for what we built the truck to do-- we're pretty happy with it. The reality, of course, is that it's not nearly as well-proven a powerplant as either Toyota mill-- so the Atlas could blow up tomorrow and the 3FE's will continue to post 400,000 miles before needing work.

The weight difference is the big eye-opener--- 600 pounds is a lot. When we build the Duramax FJ80 it will be funny if IT ends up being lighter than a stock FJ80. That would be twisted.

TT

The extra

 

[alia176]

TT,

Is this a full time gig, swapping engines and hypo tuning?

 

[TwoTonic]

TT,

Is this a full time gig, swapping engines and hypo tuning?

No, just more fun than the day job unfortunately.