Lean after new shocks - KDSS?

[AeroAggie]

Sorry if this is a well-worn topic. I had the shocks replaced on my wife's LC200 with 180k miles on it, stock height, at a local indy shop. The driver's side is now 2" higher in the back and 1.5" higher in the front. I didn't drive it home or at all the day we picked it up so I didn't notice it right away. When I did drive it the next day, I immediately noticed it was higher than normal when I got into the driver seat, and a ruler confirmed (pics attached).

Is this likely a KDSS issue? I'm going to try the rebalance thing as soon as I finish this post, so fingers crossed.

Other threads indicate differences in spring height left/right - the only way that should be a problem here is if the springs were swapped during install. I'll check with the shop.

Any other guesses before I call them tomorrow? (pre-supposing that the KDSS rebalance doesn't work...)

 

[AnyMal]

Why did you replace shocks?

If the passenger side shocks were abused it may have contributed to springs sagging on that side depending on how long that was at play.
Shocks should be replaced long before 180K miles, definitely overdue though. That could have a lot to do with it.
Also springs are relatively affordable to replace OEM or Aftermarket. I would always advise them to be done along with shocks to return to a factory condition.
Springs only differ in the rear BTW but that could definitely affect KDSS nonetheless im not sure by that amount. Try the rebalancing first and report.

 

[bloc]

Yes try balancing. Also possible that the shop didn’t torque the suspension pivot bolts correctly and the lean is caused by tension in suspension bushings.

Is the rig very rusty? A couple cases of KDSS valves failing from corrosion have been reported and that usually results in a dramatic lean. Not sure how replacing shocks could bring this issue up but just asking.

Or. if the shop really screwed brings up and opened the valves more than 3 turns, letting fluid leak out. Did you get the impression they are familiar with LandCruisers at all? I agree it is unlikely they swapped rear springs for a simple shock replacement. Front is more likely but they are the same.

 

[montegofd3s]

"Or. if the shop really screwed brings up and opened the valves more than 3 turns, letting fluid leak out"

Hey @bloc, do you think that would initiate a lean situation, or without fluid do you think the vehicle would just be unstable at speed? Not trying to hijack the thread, just providing info for the masses.

 

[AeroAggie]

I replaced the shocks because it was riding like a boat. They were done. I bought the car about 4 years ago and I’m certain these were original.

I talked to the shop, or at least the desk guy. He was unaware of any KDSS instructions, so I’m sure they didn’t do anything like open valves or try to balance it. He did say the tech struggled to get the sway bar bolts back in, so he was fighting it a bit. I’d say they are not a Land Cruiser savvy shop. I’m in the Ft Worth area so I’ll try Dajda’s next time. I didn’t find him until after I had scheduled the other shop and ordered parts.

I did try rebalancing the KDSS myself. I was able to get the 2” reduced to about 1” in the rear. The fronts are within about 0.25” now. I’m debating whether to bring it back to the shop (he offered to look at it again). I’ll double check tire wear and inflation and do it again.

For what it’s worth, it does drive fine and has noticeably better damping.

 

[AnyMal]

I replaced the shocks because it was riding like a boat. They were done. I bought the car about 4 years ago and I’m certain these were original.

I talked to the shop, or at least the desk guy. He was unaware of any KDSS instructions, so I’m sure they didn’t do anything like open valves or try to balance it. He did say the tech struggled to get the sway bar bolts back in, so he was fighting it a bit. I’d say they are not a Land Cruiser savvy shop. I’m in the Ft Worth area so I’ll try Dajda’s next time. I didn’t find him until after I had scheduled the other shop and ordered parts.

I did try rebalancing the KDSS myself. I was able to get the 2” reduced to about 1” in the rear. The fronts are within about 0.25” now. I’m debating whether to bring it back to the shop (he offered to look at it again). I’ll double check tire wear and inflation and do it again.

For what it’s worth, it does drive fine and has noticeably better damping.

Do you see any color indicators stamped on the rear springs? I am gonna completely get this wrong but i think green/purple is driver pink/blue is passanger but i know that it has changed around as well. Someone here will know for sure and you can search for it as well.
I was looking around at this in an attempt to order new rear springs to height match them for my AHC leaning.

 

[TimCFJ40]

I replaced the shocks because it was riding like a boat. They were done. I bought the car about 4 years ago and I’m certain these were original.

I talked to the shop, or at least the desk guy. He was unaware of any KDSS instructions, so I’m sure they didn’t do anything like open valves or try to balance it. He did say the tech struggled to get the sway bar bolts back in, so he was fighting it a bit. I’d say they are not a Land Cruiser savvy shop. I’m in the Ft Worth area so I’ll try Dajda’s next time. I didn’t find him until after I had scheduled the other shop and ordered parts.

I did try rebalancing the KDSS myself. I was able to get the 2” reduced to about 1” in the rear. The fronts are within about 0.25” now. I’m debating whether to bring it back to the shop (he offered to look at it again). I’ll double check tire wear and inflation and do it again.

For what it’s worth, it does drive fine and has noticeably better damping.

I'd leave it until you replace the springs. A left-right balance of within an inch on old shot springs is about as good as you can hope for. If you replace the springs, you could adjust the level from side to side with some small spacers (OME Calls them trim packers). Even brand new springs aren't always exactly the same, and each vehicle has slight variations that would necessitate small shim adjustments to get everything just so.

 

[jefo13]

These shops don't know what they are doing... Your best bet is to get it back on the platform. Losen KDSS valves (3 turns) then have them raise the truck leaving the 4 wheels hanging. Lower it back on its wheels and tighten the valves, that should fix it...

 

[AeroAggie]

These shops don't know what they are doing... Your best bet is to get it back on the platform. Losen KDSS valves (3 turns) then have them raise the truck leaving the 4 wheels hanging. Lower it back on its wheels and tighten the valves, that should fix it...

How about I just put the rear on jack stands? I’d rather not leave it with the shop to do this without me supervising. Of course few shops will let the customer on the shop floor anyway.

 

[jefo13]

How about I just put the rear on jack stands? I’d rather not leave it with the shop to do this without me supervising. Of course few shops will let the customer on the shop floor anyway.

I guess if you could get them all 4 up at the same time? I know the rear drops a lot so you need tall jack stands for the rear -remember you will need to support by the frame

 

[bloc]

"Or. if the shop really screwed brings up and opened the valves more than 3 turns, letting fluid leak out"

Hey @bloc, do you think that would initiate a lean situation, or without fluid do you think the vehicle would just be unstable at speed? Not trying to hijack the thread, just providing info for the masses.

If you check my KDSS anatomy thread I mention corrosion failed valves seem to impart a lean. I’m not sure what the mechanism here other than corrosion causing a leak that creates a severe imbalance. The internals of the system are lubricated and protected from corrosion by the oil so actual corrosion internally is very difficult to imagine.

But yes without fluid and pressure in the system your sway bars will act disconnected permanently and this would make for very dodgy cornering stability.

Do you see any color indicators stamped on the rear springs? I am gonna completely get this wrong but i think green/purple is driver pink/blue is passanger but i know that it has changed around as well. Someone here will know for sure and you can search for it as well.
I was looking around at this in an attempt to order new rear springs to height match them for my AHC leaning.

Note that spring part numbers and most likely color stamps changed over the years..

How about I just put the rear on jack stands? I’d rather not leave it with the shop to do this without me supervising. Of course few shops will let the customer on the shop floor anyway.

Btw if the shop did an alignment with that lean your alignment is now way out of spec.

 

[Lester did that]

I talked to the shop, or at least the desk guy. He was unaware of any KDSS instructions, so I’m sure they didn’t do anything like open valves or try to balance it. He did say the tech struggled to get the sway bar bolts back in, so he was fighting it a bit. I’d say they are not a Land Cruiser savvy shop. I’m in the Ft Worth area so I’ll try Dajda’s next time. I didn’t find him until after I had scheduled the other shop and ordered parts.

I did try rebalancing the KDSS myself. I was able to get the 2” reduced to about 1” in the rear. The fronts are within about 0.25” now. I’m debating whether to bring it back to the shop (he offered to look at it again). I’ll double check tire wear and inflation and do it again.

This. "Unaware of KDSS instructions." The shop does not know a LC. Some dealers don't even know what KDSS is or will tell you that you don't know what you are talking about. It could be a number of things. But what you stated they told you sends up a bunch of red flags. If you can find a shop in your area that has done a lot of work on LC suspensions, aka 4x4 shop, bring it into them. My bet is they fix it up in no time and explain what was not done during the install. The KDSS system is mechanically very simple but it's also not normal. Needs a savvy mechanic.

 

[AeroAggie]

This. "Unaware of KDSS instructions." The shop does not know a LC. Some dealers don't even know what KDSS is or will tell you that you don't know what you are talking about. It could be a number of things. But what you stated they told you sends up a bunch of red flags. If you can find a shop in your area that has done a lot of work on LC suspensions, aka 4x4 shop, bring it into them. My bet is they fix it up in no time and explain what was not done during the install. The KDSS system is mechanically very simple but it's also not normal. Needs a savvy mechanic.

Thanks for the feedback, and I agree. I think I'm done with that shop. I have reached out to Dajda's Auto in NRH (Texas Cruiser Man) to see what he can do. His website shows mostly 40s, 60s, and 80s, but at least he should understand these are a little bit special.

 

[AeroAggie]

Btw if the shop did an alignment with that lean your alignment is now way out of spec.

This shop did not do an alignment, but the local dealer did a couple of weeks ago - what a treat that was (and how I decided to go to an indy for shocks). I took it to the dealer for a State Inspection. Horn didn't work, so they had to dig into the steering column. Broken part was behind the airbag, so they had to pull steering wheel, and then subsequent alignment. Broke one tie rod end during the alignment, which they replaced for free, and I had them replace the other side too just to freshen up steering symmetrically.

I will have it realigned after I get the KDSS worked out, but it tracks pretty straight as it stands now.

 

[bloc]

This shop did not do an alignment, but the local dealer did a couple of weeks ago - what a treat that was (and how I decided to go to an indy for shocks). I took it to the dealer for a State Inspection. Horn didn't work, so they had to dig into the steering column. Broken part was behind the airbag, so they had to pull steering wheel, and then subsequent alignment. Broke one tie rod end during the alignment, which they replaced for free, and I had them replace the other side too just to freshen up steering symmetrically.

I will have it realigned after I get the KDSS worked out, but it tracks pretty straight as it stands now.

Ah yeah. You would need an alignment after the amount of disassembly on the front end to get the struts out. Good that you didn’t have it done before figuring out the lean.

A good alignment shop would catch the lean and point it out before proceeding anyway. When I put my kings on and they settled in one side settled more, and it was the shop that caught that. In my case easy to adjust with the coil overs.

 

[mileyb]

Currently having this issue now. Thanks for all the info.

Miley

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