LC 99 Drivetrain slipping in transfercase H position

[VijayW]

Folks,

Mine is a 1999 LC (UZJ100), and my problem is identical to the problem described in the 1993 LC thread
https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/167488-93-landcruiser-trans-problems.html
which has been a source of great help.

Summary of symptoms:
in transfercase H (normal) position, it slips in all gears, and parking lock doesn't hold the vehicle
in transfercase L position, all gears engage fine (in lower gearing), and the parking lock holds

A workaround, removing the Diff fuse, suggested by MoGas in post # 2367152 (https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/167488-93-landcruiser-trans-problems.html#post2367152) works exactly; the fuse is different in my model; I think 20A. MoGas to you (Dave, to collect your reward for this wonderful tip, please send me a message)

I have not yet had an opportunity to do further troubleshooting as suggested in the above threads, especially with great explanations by Spike in the post # 2369479 (https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/167488-93-landcruiser-trans-problems.html#post2369479), as I don't have place to jack it up.

Question 1: I have driven it in H transfercase (with Diff fuse removed) about 10 miles on local roads, without any symptoms or problems up to 35 mph. But would it be ok to drive it like that for about 30 miles on highways (to my mechanic friend) at around 55mph?

Question 2: With the following history of this vehicle, is anyone able to narrow down which part (a rear drive flange, or a diff gear) that may possibly have failed?

EVENT 1: While driving around 25 mph, gear shifter accidentally thrown forward to park. As soon as the error was realized, I hit the brakes; the vehicle stopped within half a block, and the parking pawl locked. The vehicle drove fine after this event, with no signs of any problems.
EVENT 2: Few weeks later, a short-duration (2-3 sec) whining noise was heard only on one occasion while on the highway around 55 mph)
EVENT 3: Few more weeks later, the right rear wheel got caught against a curb, while turning after a stop, and that's when something snapped. This vehicle gives a grinding noise when "slipping" in H.

Many thanks in advance!
-VJ

 

[marshotel]

Q1: If you drove it 10 miles at 35 mph with no problem, then you should be able to drive it 30 miles at 55 mph. I think you should drive slowly and carefully to your mechanic friend....

Q2: It sounds like you broke some part of the rear drivetrain. If I understand correctly, it sounds like the vehicle will not proceed unless the center differential is locked. Maybe when you hit the curb you broke a drive flange or something in the rear axle so now the rear axle just slips and the vehicle will not proceed unless the center diff is locked.

If it goes without making any awful noises, then I would drive it to the mechanic friend and check it out.
Maybe look around that right rear wheel for parts that are broken.

 

[AimCOtaco]

You should find that hitting the center diff lock button has the same effect as switching from Hi to Lo.

I would lock the center diff, drive a few minutes to ensure engagement, then lift 1 front wheel and see if you can spin it by hand with the other three on the ground. If it spins, your front diff or a CV is your issue.
Drop the front and lift 1 rear, repeat the test if it spins, the problem is in your rear axle.

 

[VijayW]

Q1: If you drove it 10 miles at 35 mph with no problem, then you should be able to drive it 30 miles at 55 mph. I think you should drive slowly and carefully to your mechanic friend....

Q2: It sounds like you broke some part of the rear drivetrain. If I understand correctly, it sounds like the vehicle will not proceed unless the center differential is locked. Maybe when you hit the curb you broke a drive flange or something in the rear axle so now the rear axle just slips and the vehicle will not proceed unless the center diff is locked.

...

Thanks, marshotel, for the answers; so I plan to drive it slowly over to my mechanic friend.

As this vehicle, having over 250k in mileage, also needs work on the front end, I'll order those parts first, and go at one time. Given the next weekend is a long one, it'll probably be two weeks before I'm able to take it to my mechanic at mutual convenience. But I will certainly keep you posted.

After the problem, I drove the car (in H with Diff locked) for a premium oil change, hoping if they would see a problem while wheel balancing. But they didn't; my previous oil change place was very good at picking on even very minor problems. If I had known that they would not find, I'd have asked them to look.

In a quick search, I found some front drive-flange kit links on the web, but none for the rear yet; are the front and rear drive flange kits different part numbers?

Thanks again!

 

[VijayW]

You should find that hitting the center diff lock button has the same effect as switching from Hi to Lo.

I would lock the center diff, drive a few minutes to ensure engagement, then lift 1 front wheel and see if you can spin it by hand with the other three on the ground. If it spins, your front diff or a CV is your issue.
Drop the front and lift 1 rear, repeat the test if it spins, the problem is in your rear axle.

Thanks, AimCOtaco!
When I got stuck with slipping, I must have tried everything, including hitting the Diff Lock button, but nothing worked except going in transfercase L. It's on this forum that I learnt the Diff fuse removal trick (to go in H). When I get a chance, I'll try putting the fuse back, and depressing the Diff Lock button instead, and see. (I don't drive this vehicle at the moment, and keep it with Diff fuse out and in transfercase L, to prevent rolling hazard).

Thanks much for your suggested troubleshooting, but this LC is in the most populous county in the most urbanized state (Bergen Co, NJ), so I have no place nearby to do even a small test. I'll keep an eye for an opportunity, though. I plan to drive it slowly to a mechanic friend.

 

[AimCOtaco]

Thanks, AimCOtaco!
When I got stuck with slipping, I must have tried everything, including hitting the Diff Lock button, but nothing worked except going in transfercase L. It's on this forum that I learnt the Diff fuse removal trick (to go in H). When I get a chance, I'll try putting the fuse back, and depressing the Diff Lock button instead, and see. (I don't drive this vehicle at the moment, and keep it with Diff fuse out and in transfercase L, to prevent rolling hazard).

Thanks much for your suggested troubleshooting, but this LC is in the most populous county in the most urbanized state (Bergen Co, NJ), so I have no place nearby to do even a small test. I'll keep an eye for an opportunity, though. I plan to drive it slowly to a mechanic friend.

Best of luck with it. All you should need to test is 20 minutes and the tire change jack that's on board, surely it's OK to change tires in Bergen County?

 

[paflytyer]

Best of luck with it. All you should need to test is 20 minutes and the tire change jack that's on board, surely it's OK to change tires in Bergen County?

You're not even allowed to pump your own gas in Bergen County. That law applies to the entire state of NJ actually. It's not that bad of a thing in mId February when it's 33 and raining.

This doesn't sound like a cv or front diff issue to me, but I'd try the H and diff lock recommendation. I don't believe you'll spin one wheel without removing the opposite side drive flange first though. Edit: if the cv was broken, that side would spin somewhat free, but you'd know for sure.

 

[AimCOtaco]

This doesn't sound like a cv or front diff issue to me, but I'd try the H and diff lock recommendation. I don't believe you'll spin one wheel without removing the opposite side drive flange first though.

Not if you still have ring gears and a cv you won't but if one is missing it should be a valid test. Doing the test in low is basically the same thing as it will force the CDL to engage (if it's working of course but sounds like it is).

I'm not clear on the OP's info about pulling the diff fuse though unless the idea is that you put it in low, drive to engage CDL, then pull the CDL fuse so that when you shift back to Hi you are still locked... don't know how that would be easier than pushing the CDL button though.

I don't see anything that helps to determine if the issue is front or rear however.

 

[VijayW]

You're not even allowed to pump your own gas in Bergen County. That law applies to the entire state of NJ actually. It's not that bad of a thing in mId February when it's 33 and raining.

This doesn't sound like a cv or front diff issue to me, but I'd try the H and diff lock recommendation. I don't believe you'll spin one wheel without removing the opposite side drive flange first though. Edit: if the cv was broken, that side would spin somewhat free, but you'd know for sure.

Finally, I did a part of the wheel test. First I found that the factory original bottle jack is totally unsuitable for lifting this behemoth, even one wheel at a time. I started on the rear axle, at the manufacturer recommended jacking point, and the bottle jack slipped. Then I used it together with the scissor jack from a Ford Explorer, and was able to inspect the rear wheels independently; the rear wheel drive flanges seem to be ok, as I am not able to turn them independently (except for the small 2-5 degree? play coming, possibly, from the rear differential).

However, even with the two jacks together, I couldn't lift a front wheel! The scissor jack was getting too straight, and I decided to give it up. Since then, I got a 1.5 Ton Aluminum Floor Jack. I would have gone for a 3-Ton jack, except that those steel ones are way too heavy (74 lbs as opposed to 27), and, so, would not be convenient in a roadside situation. Sometime soon, I'll check the front wheels.

I did the real-wheel tests in the transfercase L position, and keep the Diff fuse out all the time. BTW, when the problem first occurred, I might not have given the Diff Lock button enough time to work. Now, I prefer not to try the button, until I take it to the mechanic.

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[paflytyer]

I'm surprised to hear you had trouble lifting one wheel with the bottle jack. We've done trail repairs under that bottle jack without issue.

 

[100 TD]

I haven't read the other thread, but my first thought from reading the OP thread is a blown front diff or stripped front drive flange. Both are easy to check. If they are OK, drive the vehicle up to a solid object if you have a bullbar, or a deep gutter if you don't. Put it in gear in high range without centre diff lock and accelerate slowly and have some watch the front and rear drive shaft and see what is happening. If your front drive shaft turns your diff or drive flange is toast. If your rear drive shaft turns your rear diff or axle is toast. If neither turn and slippage occurs then transfer is toast. I'll take a punt on the front being toast!

 

[VijayW]

I'm surprised to hear you had trouble lifting one wheel with the bottle jack. We've done trail repairs under that bottle jack without issue.

The original bottle jack is nice & compact, and hopefully has the strength for the job. But for stability's sake, I'd have made the base of the jack at least twice as large. Even if you start on a level ground, the vehicle frame would no longer be level once you lift one side a bit. Maybe the bottle jack works better on a trail, where the earth is softer and is able to adjust to keep the base of the jack in place. I have used bottle jacks on small sedans, but, I'd be really hesitant to use this one; it is scary even to see the piston almost coming out of the jack trying to reach the height!

 

[VijayW]

Hi Folks,

Some progress to report: while I still couldn't lift a front wheel, I have seen the "smoking gun" on the drive-shaft of front driver-side wheel (see picture below).

Firstly, why can't I lift a front wheel off the ground even with a 3-ton floor jack? I couldn't lift either front wheel with my new 1.5-ton floor jack, and failed even with some wood to get extra height, so I borrowed a 3-ton floor jack. The body of the vehicle lifts up very high, but the wheel is still on the ground and heavy! I am jacking up on the frame next to the coilover?, the recommended location. What am I doing wrong, or what is wrong?? Could it be related to the front-end job (believed to be Upper Control Arms & Lower Balljoints) that this vehicle needs or the struts?

Late at night, armed with a flashlight, I was able to locate a possible troublepoint, which somehow had escaped previous inspections. Please see broken bellows boot on the driver side front-wheel drive-shaft. Not only the boot is open but I see a loose washer as well, so something is broken there. Is this the location of the Drive Flange or Outer CV Joint?

This project is finally going forward, and hopefully, within a couple of weeks, I can slowly drive this to the mechanic, to repair the drivetrain problem as well as the front-end job.

Thanks as always, for all suggestions & help!

 

[paflytyer]

The "loose washer" you're looking at in the picture is the spindle bearing. There should be grease in there, and not rust. I'm guessing that the C clip popped off the spindle (outer side of that wheel) and the axle was able to back itself out.

It's not a good thing.

 

[OregonLC]

Judging by the picture, the snap ring as come off and the CV has slid back from the drive flange. The drive flange is on the outside of the hub. If you removed the wheel cap and then remove the hub cap you should find a loose ring and a retracted CV.

Regarding jacking, if you lift from the lower control arm it will all come up, truck and tire just like it was on a ramp. As you noted, it's hard to get a floor jack that close with the tire still on.

 

[AimCOtaco]

As suggested you're CV axle has backed out of the hub, this means the CV can not drive that wheel.
Given the corrosion visible you may need to have the CV and the roller bearing it runs through as well as the wheel bearing replaced. You can also (without lifting the vehicle) remove the hub cap and the metal dust cap underneath it to see the damage to the drive flange that will also likely need to be replaced. You may be able to either push the CV back home and replace the c-clip to get to the mechanic. Alternately you can remove the drive flanges from both sides and remove the front drive shaft which will allow you to drive to the mechanic with the center diff locked and not expect to do any further damage.

Good luck, this one could be a little on the expensive side unfortunately.

 

[100 TD]

Had you popped the cap off the drive flange and inspected you would have found this immediately.

 

[CreeperSleeper]

Just a thought to the OP. Did it ever occur to you to jack the truck up from the rear axle or under the front lower A-Arm instead of the frame? The stock jack should be everything you need doing it that way. That should even be shown in the owners manual...

As for the damage, it's probably a good thing that you have a mechanic friend!

 

[VijayW]

Thanks to all (paflytyer, OregonLC, 100 TD, CreeperSleeper and especially to AimCOtaco) for the latest responses. I'm replying together to save reading:

I am planning to inspect the problem wheel this weekend, and will try jacking up on the Lower Control Arms. A friend of mine (not the mechanic) with experience taking care of his vehicles for decades will be coming to help.

The vehicle wasn't driven less than 20 miles altogether after the problem (and there was no noise with the Center Diff Locked), so I'm hoping that the damage would be on the low side. But, in the worst case, I guess I'm looking at getting the front axle unpowered.

 

[OregonLC]

What is your goal with jacking up on the LCA? The only time I have ever needed to do this is to align a hole for shock fitment. For the repair you're looking at, just jack under the front cross member and put 6T or greater jack stands under the frame.

Regarding the repair, you may be lucky if the clip just came off and you can replace it with a new one. There's a reason why it came off though that you need to investigate. The clip is not a re-use part and they come in various widths in .2 mm increments. You want a tight fit that doesn't require a hammer to force on. Play is bad. The risk you have is that either the splines on the CV or on the drive flange have become rounded. Or perhaps the clip groove is now rounded. The clip is cheap and easy, the CV is ~ $400 and the drive flange I would guess is about $80.

Lastly, you need to examine what's going on with the 'loose washer' portion on the inside of the hub. I can't tell from the pic, but there's nothing that should be 'loose' in there. And it looks pretty dry. Like more than 20 miles dry. So no sure what all is up there, but it needs a thorough investigation and likely a hub overhaul.