Larger wheels = brake upgrades ?

[T Y L E R]

[glow=black,2,2] I was wondering if , upon upgrading to 17" or 18" wheels , if there will be any potential for upgrading the brakes .

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[Gumby]

Not a constructive answer, but why? If I stomp on the brakes, I can lock the tires, at least until the ABS kicks in. Four piston fixed calipers and rear discs not enough fir ya?

 

[80and100cruisers]

Well Jesse James on Monster Garage said you need to upgrade brakes to handle BIG rims...course this was on his tailgater caddy...clearly an inferior product w/ inferior brakes

-Matt

 

[hoser]

Absolutely. There are many vendors for big brake kits. If there isn't one already available, you can have the brackets custom fabricated. It's just a matter of how much you want to spend. If you can lock up your wheels already at 60-80 mph (assuming no ABS), then a Big Brake Kit won't decrease your stopping distance. However, BBK will give you better resistance to brake fade.

This is a 100 series Stoptech brake kit $2700.

 

[ryanjl]

If you go with bigger rims, but your overall tire/wheel diameter remains the same, you probably don't need to upgrade your brakes, but it certainly opens up the possibility of doing it.

But like Gumby said, if you can lock up hot brakes now, upgrading won't get you much.

 

[bjowett]

Big tires and big towing loads place quite a bit of extra stress on the stock brakes.... the automatic dosn't help, either. So to answer your question, yes, there is potential. I'm working on a system for my truck... still unsure exactly which way to go. I already have 36" swampers to fit the stock 16" wheels, so I may see what can be crammed oin there. A nice directional HD vane rotor in the 13" range will probably be a decent improvement. I think the stock calipers are up to the job, 4 piston of good size, decent pad area, just need to move them out a tad with some custom brackets to fit over the bigger rotor. Some ducting won't hurt either... something like the scoops on the FJ62 would help move the air.

 

[Jim_Chow]

There's a brembo kit w/ Ferrari F40 calipers for both the 80 and 100 series front (list is around $5K w/ rotors). Requirement is 18" wheels. I bet they'd stop you fast, though.

 

[IdahoDoug]

If you're putting on larger diameter tires than stock, you're decreasing braking power by the ratio of new tire diameter/old tire diameter. Slap a set of 36" tires on where stock 31.5s were and you've got about a 15% decrease. Rims don't matter except that larger rims allow brake clearance for larger rotors.

Doug

 

[scottm]

Being able to lock up "hot" brakes may be misleading. Your brakes have to be able to turn momentum into heat. Their ability to generate, absorb, radiate, and withstand heat are the critical points. With larger tires you need more friction for the same stopping power, that generates heat faster, brakes reach their thermal limits sooner (brake fade). Friction drops off sooner when you need more friction to do the same job with bigger tires.

 

[ryanjl]

[quote author=Scott M. link=board=2;threadid=12941;start=msg119886#msg119886 date=1079091890]
Being able to lock up "hot" brakes may be misleading. Your brakes have to be able to turn momentum into heat. Their ability to generate, absorb, radiate, and withstand heat are the critical points. With larger tires you need more friction for the same stopping power, that generates heat faster, brakes reach their thermal limits sooner (brake fade). Friction drops off sooner when you need more friction to do the same job with bigger tires.
[/quote]

In other words, if you're driving down a long road into a valley, you've been hitting the brakes pretty hard, so obviously your brakes are hot, yet they still work great, upgrading won't net you much.

Kinda like what I said.

 

[bjowett]

[quote author=shocker link=board=2;threadid=12941;start=msg119913#msg119913 date=1079101242]
In other words, if you're driving down a long road into a valley, you've been hitting the brakes pretty hard, so obviously your brakes are hot, yet they still work great, upgrading won't net you much.

Kinda like what I said.
[/quote]

Actually, no. Try one good panic stop at that point. Adequate is not good enough.

Another often overlooked area are the wheel bearings, CV joints, and multiple seals in the front axle. All that brake heat tranfers into those areas and helps them deteriorate a bit more quickly. A larger brake will lose more of that heat to the air.

 

[ryanjl]

[quote author=bjowett link=board=2;threadid=12941;start=msg119927#msg119927 date=1079102835]
Actually, no. Try one good panic stop at that point. Adequate is not good enough.

Another often overlooked area are the wheel bearings, CV joints, and multiple seals in the front axle. All that brake heat tranfers into those areas and helps them deteriorate a bit more quickly. A larger brake will lose more of that heat to the air.
[/quote]

Hmmmmm..... If you can lock them up, isn't that normally a panic stop is?

What is it that I am saying that is sooooooo hard to understand?

 

[bjowett]

A panic stop is not "locking the brakes". Besides, locking the tires increases the stopping distance. Maybe smaller lighter brakes would be better for you?

 

[ryanjl]

Yes, I know about how locking the brakes increases stopping distances. Good luck locking the brakes on a properly functioning ABS system. I guess I need to spell things out for you........

LISTEN TO WHAT I AM SAYING.

If, right now, with your brakes hot (as in maximum fade effect, as in not cool brake fluid, as in you've been riding them a while--does this cover all the bases for you?) you can still hit the brake pedal hard enough--as in a panic stop--to necessitate the ABS system to kick in (all this I previously stated as "locking them up", but guess I should have spelled it out for you), upgrading your brakes will not net you much.

Let me repeat this all again, as I am sure your satisfaction and understanding will neccessitate:

"But like Gumby said, if you can lock up hot brakes now, upgrading won't get you much."

".....if you're driving down a long road into a valley, you've been hitting the brakes pretty hard, so obviously your brakes are hot, yet they still work great, upgrading won't net you much."

"Hmmmmm..... If you can lock them up, isn't that normally a panic stop is?"

Echo, echo, echo..........

 

[Darwood]

Yes, but just about every 80 has ABS so locking the brakes should not even be an issue. Getting ABS to activate would be the real issue here. Thie would be your threshold braking/panic braking which is a good benchmark for brake performance (at least on trucks anyway).

[edit]
looks like shocker posted before me

 

[hoser]

[quote author=shocker link=board=2;threadid=12941;start=msg120093#msg120093 date=1079117103]
Yes, I know about how locking the brakes increases stopping distances.
[/quote]

Most of the time. In gravel type surfaces, you can stop faster if you lock them up... of course you'll have less steering control (none).

 

[bjowett]

I understand what you are saying, I am not discussing that point... though you seem to think I am.

One does not know when the brakes may be past that point.

I'll leave it at this. Your brakes work for you, the 12" size is adequate for you. I can and will place my stock brakes past the point of my vehicle repeatedly stopping safely. I will be upgrading.

 

[ryanjl]

[quote author=bjowett link=board=2;threadid=12941;start=msg120185#msg120185 date=1079128377]
I'll leave it at this. Your brakes work for you, the 12" size is adequate for you. I can and will place my stock brakes past the point of my vehicle repeatedly stopping safely. I will be upgrading.
[/quote]

O.K. This we agree on. It stands to reason that if you have 36" tires, the stock brakes won't be as good as they were with the OEM tires.

I guess the misunderstanding was that I was talking about just increasing the wheel size, but not increasing the overall diameter.

Anyway......

 

[Photoman]

Something that has not been mentioned is that many times along with larger diameter tires we also add alot more weight to the cruisers. This additional weight also taxes the limits on the stock brakeing system. On my cruiser, I cannot get the ABS to kick in or brakes to lock when traveling at speed where the tires can get good traction. Don't ask! Sliding in mud or snow the ABS will work. My solution now is to try to drive carefully and use the engine by downshifting to assist the brakes to slow down. I am very interested in any brake upgrades.

Bill

 

[bjowett]

[quote author=shocker link=board=2;threadid=12941;start=msg120202#msg120202 date=1079130774]
O.K. This we agree on. It stands to reason that if you have 36" tires, the stock brakes won't be as good as they were with the OEM tires.

I guess the misunderstanding was that I was talking about just increasing the wheel size, but not increasing the overall diameter.

Anyway......




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