Kai busts another myth — sway bars (1 Viewer)

[tbisaacs]

I thought with all of the experimentation happening with LX600 shocks and moving mounts, this group would appreciate Kai’s latest video.



TL;DR running a rear sway bar and no front yields more total articulation. Running a stiffer sway bar in rear actually improves things.

This to me also illustrates why KDSS is so effective. Super stiff by default but then hydraulically articulated in opposite corners.

 

[Killacaviar]

I’m still rocking the OEM rear sway bar. But the front has been removed for a few thousand miles and it’s pretty incredible what it does for front end articulation.

Can’t wait to dive into this.

 

[tbisaacs]

I’m still rocking the OEM rear sway bar. But the front has been removed for a few thousand miles and it’s pretty incredible what it does for front end articulation.

Can’t wait to dive into this.

I wish someone would come up with a disconnect for the front

 

[TeCKis300]

I thought with all of the experimentation happening with LX600 shocks and moving mounts, this group would appreciate Kai’s latest video.



TL;DR running a rear sway bar and no front yields more total articulation. Running a stiffer sway bar in rear actually improves things.

This to me also illustrates why KDSS is so effective. Super stiff by default but then hydraulically articulated in opposite corners.

Another great video! Funny cause my wife always comments how nerdy the content is. Nawh, nothing but admiration from me, and this channel is approaching hardcore gangsta status.

I would love to tweak my sway bars but with highway travel safety and stability a priority, I'm going to leave mine in place. Don't forget that AHC is fundamentally the same hydraulic cross linking of KDSS but acting on the shocks so we don't lose any functionality there. In contrast, because it's actively controlled, there are off-nominal cases where it likely has advantages.

There's a few ways we can tune both KDSS and AHC sways. It's not talked about but the KDSS relocation for LC changes the motion ratio which effectively softens the front sway. Could extend that approach for the LC rears, and even the AHC sways. Combining that with longer end links could accommodate long travel and provide some tuning based on the angle it engages the sways.

 

[highfructose]

I wish someone would come up with a disconnect for the front

What would it take for a quick disconnect to be fitted?

 

[kcjaz]

Doesn’t the KDSS link the front and rear? What is the KDSS system going to do with the front disconnected?

 

[highfructose]

Doesn’t the KDSS link the front and rear? What is the KDSS system going to do with the front disconnected?

I meant for the lx570.

I think kdss functions as an automatic hydraulic sway bar disconnect. I wouldn’t expect it would be necessary to add a fully manually disconnectable sway bar for the kdss.

 

[Heckraiser]

Really sucks that the lower swaybar bolt on the lx570 LCA mounts into the interior of the arm, otherwise a hitch-pin style to replace the lower mounting bolt would be easy peasy like with a 4runner or 100. Somebody smarter than me, work something up! I would love to tame the side-to-side bobbing by freeing up the front end to move more easily.

 

[nwfl4runner]

I wish someone would come up with a disconnect for the front

I think the issue is finding a location to rotate the bar to once it's disconnected. Can't really mess with the bar (spring steel) so you're disconnecting end links and trying to move/mount it out of the way.

 

[TeCKis300]

I think it's useful to understand Kai's video in context. His video is focused on the FJ without any functional disconnect. Toyota has already built in sway bar disconnecting capabilities into both the LC and LX.

The 200-series factory RTI is already well above what the FJ is capable of (reference below) by a wide margin. It's scores are in the elite league of Jeeps and other off-road specials with more rudimentary disconnecting capabilities.

Sure, more is possible. There's other mods that can greatly increase RTI (taller sidewall tires, wider offset, long travel) without touching the sway bar directly. Long arm suspensions using Tundra parts may also add to RTI. Then there is the possibility to relocate the sway bar and utilize long links to further soften the sway.

Been watching the new beastly generation of factory off-roaders come out like TRX, Bronco Sasquatch, Colorado ZR2 Bison, and soon to be Raptor R and Bronco Raptor. Keen on how far they're pushing the limits of factory capability and suspension articulation. I have been keeping this tracker that's been buried in other threads. Thought it would deserve its own as I make another update for lots of '21 models including the new F150 Raptor w/37s that scored 537 RTI, and Bronco 2-door Sasquatch coming in at 648.

Really shows how well the 200-series continues to hold its own, for a design first delivered in '08, even against this new breed.

Would love to see how some modded 200s do. I think some simple extended travel shocks, 34s+, and lower offsets would put it into the 700+. Theory until we see some results in real life.


RTI Score Chart:

'18 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar off): 724
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar off): 718
'22 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4xe (bar off): 701
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JKUR (last gen, bar off): 687
'22 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 392 (bar off): 684
'20 Toyota Land Cruiser Heritage Edition: 661
'21 Bronco 2-Door First Edition 35" Sasquatch (bar off): 648
'17 Toyota Land Cruiser: 647
'17 Lexus LX570 (AHC normal, 20" wheels): 645
'21 Ford Bronco First Ed (bar off): 618
'21 Ford Raptor: 618
Jeep Gladiator Rubicon (bar off): 607
'17 Ford Rapter Supercab: 603
'21 Ram 1500 TRX: 602
'93 Toyota Land Cruiser 80-series: 593
'16 Dodge Power Wagon: 589
'20 Lexus LX570 Sport w/chin spoiler (AHC high, 21" wheels): 588
'22 Ineos Grenadier: 585
'95 Land Rover Discovery: 588
'10 Toyota 4runner w/KDSS: 584
'94 Land Rover Defender 90: 580
'17 Land Rover LR4: 560
'22 Tacoma TRD Pro: 559
'22 Ford F-150 Tremor: 557
'21 Toyota 4Runner TRD Off-Road (w/KDSS): 555
'14 Ford Raptor: 551
'20 Power Wagon (w/ disconnecting sway): 538
'21 Ford Raptor w/37" tire package: 537
Mercedes G63 AMG (last gen): 534
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JLUR (bar on): 523
'21 Bronco 2-Door First Edition 35" Sasquatch (bar on): 522
'04 GX470 w/KDSS: 519
Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon JKUR (last gen, bar off): 518
'17 Land Rover Discovery: 516
'07 Toyota FJ Cruiser: 515
'22 Rivian R1T (Normal): 510
'18 Dodge Power Wagon: 510
Chevy Colorado ZR2 Bison: 501
'21 Ford Bronco First Ed (bar on): 498
Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro: 492
'21 Chevy Colorado ZR2: 489
'22 Rivian R1T (Rock Crawl Mode aka high): 488
'20 Land Rover Defender 110 SE: 486
'14 Toyota Tundra TRD Pro: 484
Jeep Gladiator Mojave: 476
Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road: 468
Jeep Gladiator Rubicon (bar on): 458
'17 Land Rover LR4 (high mode): 457
'22 Ford Ranger Tremor: 441
'20 F-250 Superduty Tremor: 436
'22 Tundra TRD Pro: 436
'22 Nissan Frontier Pro 4X: 435
'04 GX470 (no KDSS): 428
'15 Ford F150: 420
'14 Ram Power Wagon: 412
Chevy Colorado Z71 (air dam removed): 410
'19 Ram Rebel: 406
'17 Land Rover Discovery (high mode): 377
'11 Mercedes-Benz G-Class 300 CDI Professional: 376
'17 Nissan Armada: 362
'20 Sequoia TRD Pro: 351
'20 Rav4 TRD Off-Road: 308