K&N Filters

[mobi-arc]

Anyone fitted a K&N performance air intake and removed the stock airbox? The K&N website doesn't list an option except a replacement filter for the stock airbox. If a smaller air intake can be fitted and the stock airbox removed, it would leave some open space for a compressor or second battery.

Scott

 

[macneill]

I put this one in.

 

[uzj100]

Is it specifically for the 100 or a Sequioa or Tundra?

I am going to Hatteras this weekend for some surf fishing! I can not wait.

uzj100

 

[uzj100]

Found it.

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=408_2258&action=product

$323.

 

[mobi-arc]

Doesn't look like it frees up much room. What benefit does one derive for $323?

Scott

 

[the shed guy]

A lighter wallet.......

 

[macneill]

A cool sound?

 

[robbie]

Possiability of sucking small particals into the engine(if you are around dust alot, these filter do not filter everyting out like a stock one does), the oil screwing with the hot wire in the
Air mass sensor (costing big buck later). All stuff discussed in detail in the 80 series list, do a search in that forum. later robbie

 

[DMX84]

Possiability of sucking small particals into the engine(if you are around dust alot, these filter do not filter everyting out like a stock one does), the oil screwing with the hot wire in the
Air mass sensor (costing big buck later). All stuff discussed in detail in the 80 series list, do a search in that forum. later robbie

Robbie, Happy birthday! (Nov. 19)
I don’t want to be critical on this, but I don’t agree with what you are saying. I do know for a fact that it does filter awesome. I’ve used it on my vr4 Galant turbo since new in ’91. The motor finally tired out (after driving it very hard I might add) after only 185 thousand miles. (Have you put 100K+ on any cars?) The turbo is original including everything else on the car, except the water pump & radiator (and normal wearing parts).
I will say that the Toyota stock air filter is fine for most driving, but if you compare the two when dirty, your paper filter will load up and not breathe as well. The oil on the K&N traps the dirt witch wicks the oil onto the dust/dirt and becomes somewhat of a filter media as well. The paper just holds the dirt (and it begins to work through I might add) and starts piling up, causing more of a restriction. (Ever see a paper inlet filter in a paint booth? And look at all the dirt in your paint job!) (On the other hand, look at the cloth outer bag on you vacuum cleaner; it has dirt that is drawn through the paper bag/filter.)
I will say I doubt that any performance gains will be evident in the LC, unless using a supercharger or turbo, and all the other restrictions throughout the engine will hinder the hp gains as well. i.e. the filter alone will not make you fast, and a turbo won’t spool as efficiently if the exhaust is restricting the flow of exhaust gases.
But the beauty of K&N is it flows well even when dirty, unlike the paper unit. The paper unit will filter the dirt, but does it “breathe” just as well when it’s dirty?
The one thing you said I tend to agree with is the oil on the heated wire (MAS),
People do over oil the filters. I will admit that. I used too as well. A freshly oiled filter should not be used right away either. I used to saturate the filter material so that it looked red, instead of letting it “wick” into place. So there could be some concern with the heated wire MAS due to over oiling the filter, however I’ve never gotten a CE light because of it (the vr4 doesn’t use the heated wire MAS). (not yet anyway !) The heated wire units are a bit sensitive and care should taken to prevent oil or other contaminants coming in contact with it.
My .02¢
DMX

 

[robbie]

well lets see I owned a 85 4/runner for 15 years and 300k miles, I have just given up a 94 landcruiser that had 225k miles on it, I put over 140k miles on it. I also have a 93 LC that has 185k miles on it that my wife put about 35k miles. Other vechicles I have owned in the past I do not remember how many miles I have put on(maybe close to 1mil miles). I have used the K/N on a couple of different toyotas, I know how not to over oil them, I have been disapointed with the filter expecially on dirt roads, they pass too much little stuff that you can see on the crossover tube from the filter box to the engine. I ahve a couple of different K/N's at the shop, (newer bigger style, older smaller style) That I loan to people to allow them to see the dirt that will build up in the cossover tube. They may have there place on the paved road to help with daily driving, but they do not have there place in my engine bay when the road turns to dirt. I have spent too much time and effort on my engines to have crap filtering the air I feed it.
This is my experence of 3 different toytota's running a K/N on paved roads. I no longer run a K/N because of what I have seen.
As for the stock filters, most of them are not a full paper but a sythentic and paper mix, or full sythentic, that actually can be shaken out, some can be washed. I personally do not run the filter more than 30 k miles unless I change it out sooner. The K/N does not plug up easier because it lets stuff through, this might be fine for a road car, but a offroad machine you will be asking for trouble alot sooner than i will be. Toyota usually designs a lot of square inches of filter medium for flow of air to the engine way beyond what it needs for 30 k miles, if needed you then need to bang it out gently. They do have some good experence keeping vechicles running in the most adverse conditions.
If you have the money to rebuild the engine when it wear out early, then use a filter that lets stuff in.
I see you live in AQ, I lived in santa fe for almost 8 years and I would never run a K/N in the dust of the desert you live in, I did and the particulate matter in my crossover tube concerned me greatly.
Thanks for the B-day warning. catch you later robbie

 

[DMX84]

Well, well, well, you certainly have been around the block a few times, and upped the ante… I FOLD! LOL.
I knew you were probably old enough to know what you were talking about having 424 posts under your belt, But I couldn’t let you just post your reply of “Possibility of sucking small particles into the engine (if you are around dust alot, these filter do not filter everything out like a stock one does)” and not give any past experience to add validity/proof of that statement. Me being a newer person to this site who doesn’t know your experience, and the remark reminding me of one a few mechanic’s have told me; “that modifications to the vehicle that are not factory approved are worthless and a waste of money”…and some even try to say that it will void the warranty.
(Just think how boring this forum would be if nobody did modifications! We would not have this cool discussion about the K&N! )
But I didn’t think that fit you, because of your tricked out FJ80 on your signature.
The remark about the 100K miles wasn’t supposed to belittle you or me, as I have put over 100k on other cars as well. I had a FJ62 that I sold with 120 something thousand miles and several other vehicles that I can’t recall the mileage of.
I mentioned the car because it added validity to my statement, which I used the K&N for all those miles. However, most people don’t keep their cars that long either…except Land Cruiser owners!

Now your second post has tons of good information (like the air filters being synthetic blended material) and brings up some questions & has me wondering if I’ll ever use one on my Cruiser!
It sounds like you think this is a design flaw, but could it be a problem with the styles/fitment of the vehicle’s you’ve worked on? I do know that my first filter the rubber had gotten very hard and would not offer a good seal. K&N replaced the filter no questions asked; In fact they did not want the old one back! I have not seen any dirt in my unit and will definitely keep my eyes open (as I always do), but will take extra care in my cleaning/examination. Not sure what you are calling a “crossover tube”. Is this the vent form the PVC? And if so, you think it may be some sort of sludge/grime being sucked form that vent? My new setup on my car utilizes an oil catch can for the PVC. I have some friends/acquaintance at Kirtland AFB, and I know of a fleet of vehicles that are all using K&N’s, and had been using them for several years totaling well over a million miles. The mechanics would be unbiased in there opinions as they don’t own the vehicles and I’m sure they won’t mind telling me if they are seeing any dirt getting by (these aren’t only used on the street either). It would be interesting to see what they have to say.

Not sure your reason for moving to CO, but my wife and I have considered moving to Colorado Springs, businesses are hard to start in Albuquerque (due to it being a poor state and the tax structure) and the Chamber of Commerce here seemed like they only want to sign me up with yearly dues & had no real help to get me going, other than advertisement. On the other hand we were visiting the CoC in Colorado Springs and they were more than happy to have new businesses move there, and offered tons of help, including contacts with other people in similar fields, unlike the Land of Entrapment.
It will be hard to leave our dream house here in the mountains outside of the city. But CO is very beautiful as well with similar weather.

Robbie, it’s been fun & maybe someday when we are up your way or you are down here, we can meet and have a drink of you choice.
Vaya Con Dios
Dean

 

[robbie]

Well Dean I did not take offense with any statements. The filters were fitted properly and performed great for what they are. It will be interesting to see what the military guys say on those rigs. Any being a military brat I have seen interesting stuff from there R&D staff. But the military has cheap labor and give the guys experence to rebuild those engines when worn out, maybe job security? Cross over tuber is the tube from the filter box and the throttle body. If the concept filtered out the dust I would use them because they are cleanable and reusuable. I do hate throwing stuff away.
colorado was a choice to start a working for Christo here at slee offroad in golden. I needed some where cooler and lower in elevation than Santa Fe. I think the Feds like the State of NM to remain low income as it is a great place to take advantage of the resources and to do Atomic reasearch. The state could reap more from the resources and pass it on to the people but do not. The state has some wonerful areas to explore and cool history. Fun place to visit but for me it was only a short term commitment. Good luck on your search for a place to do work. later robbie

 

[Waggoner5]

Test info on air filters. This one was done using a Duramax truck, but what the heck.

http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

 

[NMuzj100]

tests from bobistheoilguy

More filter tests....

Bobistheoilguy Air Filter Test

 

[alia176]

I agree, it's a waste of money! I used to jump on this bandwagon too but no more! My Toy engine does fine as it came from the factory!

 

[DMX84]

Open mouth, & insert foot!
I work for a company that is ISO certified and know what it takes to maintain the certification, and this test is a real eye opener!
I can’t believe the dirt that it allows to pass! I always believed that the oil would trap the dirt. I am going to replace the K&N with the OEM one!
Robbie, you were right, and I think you for point this out to me, and I am appalled that I believed the hype that is out there. “K&N “plugged up” 3 times faster, passed 15 times more dirt and captured 39% less dirt. “ That Sucks! A big thanks to Waggener5, NMuz100 for invaluable information. It is an eye opener! A biblical phrase “Do not try to remove the splinter from thy neighbor’s eye, until you have removed the plank from your own eye”. I would like to pass this information on to some other BB’s, to get the word out.
I am removing my K&N and going with an OEM one.
Thanks again to everyone; this is why this site is the best!
Signed
Fooled by the hype
DMX