Isuzu 4BD1T swap part II : now w/ A440F auto

[longbow]

Thanks Jeremy!

Glad the information has helped. Soooooo many people on here have helped me over the years with untold amounts of information and parts help that now it's my turn to finally help some other people.

1skyking,
That 80 series sounds like a great deal. I really don't think that the difference between 4.1 and 3.7 gears should be a deal breaker. You should be considering 35" tires for a diesel cruiser anyway because of the lack of higher gearing and the difference between these two gear ratios with 35" tires equates to 196 RPMs at highway speeds. This equates to engine rpms at 75mph of 2150 with 4.1 gearing, still within the 2000 to 2200RPM sweet spot for diesels in my book. I would buy the 80 and have the sweet riding coil springs if it was me. I drive mine right at 70 most of the time on the highway.

By the way, I started my build thread over in the 40 section for my second Isuzu powered cruiser. Here is the link. https://forum.ih8mud.com/40-55-series-tech/719763-how-build-diesel-40-budget-w-isuzu-4bd1t-2.html

Enjoy!

Don

 

[Fromage]

If it's of any help, I have a very similar swap into my 1994 FZJ80 with a Mitsubishi 3.9 4 cylinder that has the same torque and horsepower characteristics as a 4BD1T. I have 4.10 gears and 33s, but I have a hybrid trans that uses a higher overdrive ratio than the stock A442F and A440F. If you want to run 35s or larger, I think that the stock gearing with an A440F won't be too low. Any smaller and it will feel pretty revvy. I don't think you could use the ratios of the Aisin 450-43LE we used to get a higher overdrive.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

1skyking: I'm doing a 4BD1T mated to a A440F out of a FJ80 on my 97 LX450. I plan to run the stock gears and already have 35's on it I do not think it will be a problem at all. All my calculations show 2000RPM and 60MPH and 2150 at 70MPH.

I think its going to work great once done, plan to start putting it in mid Sept.

Build thread here if you go the 80 route.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...uzu-4bd1t-lexus-lx450-land-cruiser-build.html



As I said earlier Don has been a huge help and source of information along with all the other diesel swap threads.

 

[vangojim1]

Swap looks like it went well. I the A440F holding up behind the 4bd1t?
Reason is I am working on a 88 4 runner swap from a gas v6 to 4bd1t. Some people have said not to use the 700r4 I have because the diesle doesnt spin fast enough to keep the pump in the trans going fast enough.
I also wanted to know if you had any measurments left from your build.

 

[longbow]

Vangojim1,

Hey, glad to see another Isuzu diesel convert!

My A440F tranny has been working great and is plenty strong enough for this engine.

I don't know who is saying that the 700R won't spin fast enough, but they put that same tranny from the factory behind the 6.2 diesels so I would have to say that they were wrong on that one. For it to work properly you would need to swap out the governor for a diesel one and then lower the stall on the torque converter to get it to factory specs for the diesel version of the 700R. The diesel governors can be found on Ebay and Roadrunner torque converters in Phoenix can rebuild your converter and lower the stall for diesel applications.

I almost went with the 700R before I found my method to use the A440F behind my Isuzu engines so I know quite a bit about that tranny. It is not the strongest tranny out there, but if you rebuild it with some performance upgrades it should work just fine for your application. One of the great things about that tranny is all the aftermarket support for parts and kits to upgrade up to 600 horsepower components.

In the end I decided to go with the A440F because it is a much beefier design with larger components and only clutches and steels throughout its design, whereas the 700R, like many modern automatics, uses braking bands and I am not a fan of bands because they don't self adjust as they wear. You have to drop the pan and adjust the bands after so many miles and with an A440F you will never have to do that nonsense because clutches and steels self adjust as they wear.

I don't really have any measurements for either of my swaps as I just put the engines in and then made motor mounts and crossmember mounts to fit where the engine sat best in the engine bay. You will need at least 3 to 4 inches of lift to get that engine into your 4runner though, I do know that. I would lean towards 4" or higher personally for good clearances of the oilpan and front driveshaft.

If you need any engine measurements there is plenty of info over on the 4btswaps.com site in the Isuzu specific section about this engine.

Don

 

[Dougal]

By all accounts the 700R is marginal behind a 4 cyl diesel. 8 cyl's are much easier on gearboxes, they don't have 2 strong torque pulses per rev.

 

[vangojim1]

Thanks alot for the information. It loos like the Tc stall speed is the factor and not the pump speed.
I have friends down in Phx. that want to help with the conversion plate that have asked for measuments or even better a computer file to set up a cnc to make it.
Is there anyone out there that has some?

 

[longbow]

Hi Jim,

Here is a line drawing of the basic adapter plate. You will then need to drill the mounting holes to mount it and cut the notch for the tranny pan like I did.

Don

 

[cruiserbrett]

Here is what I have for my adapter.

I do have slightly different measurements(as in within .005" or so) so I would take some time and measure what you have. Particularly WRT the Isuzu bellhousing bore (mine was 10.712") and the A440F pump diameter(mine 9.840")

 

[doug720]

Making the notch at 5 o'clock was needed on my swap to clear the front drive shaft and I had to make it after the instal! Making it in the machining process is a good plan.

Doug

 

[cruiserbrett]

Doug, the one in that drawing is for the weird bump in the A440F pan that goes fwd of the trans case.

Do you have a pic of the notch youre referring to?

 

[longbow]

Awesome drawing Brett!

I would go with Brett's measurements or your own off your oil pump and bell housing. I actually cut mine to fit on the lathe until it was a tight fit on my oil pump and the same with the Isuzu bell housing. I then measured my finished plate for this drawing. I have since built the second one for my FJ40 and it was slightly different dimensions due to variations of the outside of my oil pump on my second tranny.

Doug,
This plate is the adapter ring for the A440 auto tranny and the cutout is for the tranny oil pan kickout at the front. I think your thinking of the big ring that bolts to the Isuzu housing for the IDS adapter kit.

Don

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Looks like I'm going to be brushing up on my Solidworks. Also going to actually measure my A440 pump tonight and see where it falls into this. These are probably two of the most critical measurements in the adapter because they centre the trans and the engine, any offset will be bad news down the road.

Of course my $130 chunk of 6061 is on the water jet table today and mill/lathe tomorrow

 

[longbow]

Just to confirm what Brett was talking about above, I just measured Jeremy's bell housing and it measured 10.718" That would be an extra 6 to 7 thousanths of play if you went by my drawing specs. So measure your pump OD and bell housing ID before you make this ring for yourself and adjust accordingly.

Don

 

[Wheelingnoob]

I was going to measure my pump tonight but do not have vernier caliper big enough. Not sure what to do with it. Im sure a big one will be pricy for one time use.

 

[longbow]

You can always measure from the center stationary shaft on the pump out to the edge on both sides with your smaller caliper and then add the dimension of the shaft to your two readings. You won't be dead on, but I bet if you're carful you can get within a couple of thousanths this way.

Don

 

[69rambler]

I can mic a 442 pump if anyone wants. Personally I would suspect the reason there are dowel pins in the Aisin transmission case for bellhousing alignment is because when the front pump is machined it's a two op part and the OD that you see on the outside of the pump casting is just roughed so it can be flipped in the chuck/fixture used to machine the backside. That would support the seemingly varied measurements people have taken and the fact that the stock bellhousings have decent clearance to the pump OD.

I have one constructive criticism on Bretts design that it appears to be designed for 90 degree countersunk head bolts.

You need pretty decent alignment for parts like this, making them fit together with tight fitting concentric machined steps is good design, but fasteners are not very accurate nor are drilled holes. If you use countersunk head bolts in a precise alignment situation tightening the bolts will try to pull the bolt threads into alignment with the taper around the bolt hole. Your aluminum will move all over the place. If you only have .550" flange thickness to hide a bolt head consider using low head cap screws in a flat bottom counterbore instead of the countersunk bolts. Low heads will fit in the same, or less, real estate.

Low head bolts are usually made in two versions- One is the light duty version, like an 8.8 or 10.9 with a reduced hex size like countersunk bolts and the other is a high strength version with the standard hex size in 12.9. You don't need 12.9 in an aluminum casting, but sometimes the larger hex makes tightening them much easier.

 

[cruiserbrett]

Dustin,

thank you for your help! I compromised with regard to the 90 degree countersunk bolts b/c I hadn't found fine thread reduced height flanged head bolts(plenty of 12mm x 1.75 thread ones though). I will look more carefully tomorrow.

The Isuzu bellhousing and the A440F case(not bellhousing) have dowel pins/holes for alignment, and prior to today, didn't realize there was that much variance in tolerances. Based on the fact the Toyota 3FE to A440F bell doesn't utilize the dowels in the case(holes not present in the bellhousing) I wrongly assumed the OD of the A440F pump was +/- .001" or so. Now its time to re-evaluate the design.

I will measure the A440f and Isuzu bell dowel locations in the next day or so.

thanks for your input!

-Brett

 

[longbow]

Great info Dustin!

Just a side note, the A440 doesn't use dowel pins for alignment, it is only the outside of the pump case that it locates on. The later A442 has them and maybe it was because of this variance that they wanted a more consistent alignment of the bell housing.

I like the idea of the low head cap screws. When I originally did this design I couldn't find tapered flat head machine screws in the 12mm x 1.75 thread pitch so I had to go with 1/2" x 20 NF and re-threaded the tranny case. I would have rather had the metric thread bolts and leave the case original. And Dustin is right about the alignment of the tapered heads. The low head cap screws would allow a little play so it doesn't try to pull to one side or the other. I had to install all my bolts loosely and then go around and tighten them slightly all the way around and keep this up so as not to pull the ring to one side or the other because of these tapered heads.

Don

 

[69rambler]

I didn't realize the A440's lacked the pins like the A442 and A343 have.

I'll ask my suppliers what they have in an M12 fine low head.