Is it possible this distributor was set up 180 degrees off? (1 Viewer)

[82Blu]

Can’t start my 82 fj40 w/o starting fluid or carb cleaner… idles ok but coughs and sputters a bit under load and high rpms.
Put flywheel at TDC:

Popped off distributor cap to find this orientation seemingly 180 degrees off.

Is this possible?
Can this be reoriented without removing and disassembling and reassembling the distributor? That vacuum diaphragm looks off too by like 30-45 degrees… I’m confused how this even runs?
Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[charliemeyer007]

Yes it looks like its 180 out. Its not all that hard to put it into the correct position. You will need to pull out the dizzy, and put back in the proper location then put the plug wire in their proper spots. Not a big deal - make sure the dizzy is engaging the oil pump by being all the way down in the slot. With the spark plugs out, you can easily crank it over to check for oil pressure after replacing the dizzy.

You should check the time in place now as it sits. You never know maybe the cam is off a tooth too.

Put you timing light on plug wire 1 and see what is going on. Points gap correct if you have them. Scrape the terminal contacts inside the cap - aluminum oxide is an insulator. Make sure the plug wires have clean connection on both ends and not all crack and frayed. Open the hood on a dark night while its running and watch for dancing lightning - if you see it you need new wires. Are your spark plugs good - nice and light tan, square electrode with proper gap, not oily black. Your fuel is fresh and free of condensation - a water wet fuel filter can't pass fuel. Add a bottle of gas drier. How is you float level?

 

[aging fleet]

Or you could just be on the exhaust stroke and it's not 180 degrees out.

 

[Pighead]

Maybe, maybe not. Which piston is on the compression stroke? You'll need to take off the valve cover to check

 

[82Blu]

All great questions!
1. Vehicles new to me so not much idea what’s been done to date…
2. I did new plugs (properly gapped), cap and rotor, air filter, and PO put in new fuel filter… he put in about 5 gal fresh gas trying to get it started after we discovered a leak in the fuel line.
3. Carb is a disaster… sump diaphragm is disintegrated but squirts a little, choke plate missing, PO says he rebuilt within last 3 years, linkages are a bit of a mess and no tension on the springs… (winter project to rebuild I guess)

I just thought I’d start with timing and was surprised to find it 180 out and the vacuum advance so cockeyed…

It idles pretty well. So was hoping I was in tweaking range vs pulling valve cover too… may just pull #1 spark plug and “feel” with a big zip tie to see where we are in the stroke.

New gas couldn’t hurt… and a new fuel filter (en route)

Ordering historic MO plates tomorrow… ready to drive this!
Other probs, brake lights kicking my butt after requiring something fixed on all four corners….

Any comments with St. Louis resources would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks all!

 

[Shark56]

TDC should be a line engraved on the flywheel.
The BB is 7⁰ advanced.
Still should not be off that much.
If you check, and see it is infact 180 out. Just swap plug wires on Cap, 1-6, 2-4, ect. A lot easier than pulling the distibutor.

Sounds like your biggest problem for now is the Carb issues.

 

[Pighead]

may just pull #1 spark plug and “feel” with a big zip tie to see where we are in the stroke.

Except that pistons #1 & #6 are at TDC at the same time.

 

[sggoat]

Think firing order on all 2Fs are the same, so--if you are at tdc, the diz rotor should be pointed at approx # 4 plug(# 1 cyl on the cap)--but the cap you show does not seem to have the cylinder # stamped on it--make sure plug wires are all correct(could be firing # 6 when should be #1)?

 

[82Blu]

TDC should be a line engraved on the flywheel.
The BB is 7⁰ advanced.
Still should not be off that much.
If you check, and see it is infact 180 out. Just swap plug wires on Cap, 1-6, 2-4, ect. A lot easier than pulling the distibutor.

Sounds like your biggest problem for now is the Carb issues.

That’s a crazy and creative idea… very practical and easy to test. I love it!
Agreed… bigger prob with carb.

 

[DeskJock]

to the best of my knowledge, being 180 degrees - shouldn't matter to the motor or performance. But, I'd personally want it right.

if that's a new rig. I'd replace the rotor, cap and plugs and dial in the timing correctly.

Next steps would be to see if you have fuel delivery to the carb; and then diagnose the carb .....

 

[pb4ugo]

Yes, it's possible, the engine will run if the distributor is 180 out. As others have mentioned, the engine is likely on its exhaust stroke. B4 messing with the distributor you need to confirm the engine is at TDC on the compression stroke and then look at the orientation of the distributor.

 

[Pighead]

That vacuum diaphragm looks off too by like 30-45 degrees…

Vacuum diaphragm looks fine to me

 

[andrewbridges1]

Can’t start my 82 fj40 w/o starting fluid or carb cleaner… idles ok but coughs and sputters a bit under load and high rpms.
Put flywheel at TDC: View attachment 3721532

Popped off distributor cap to find this orientation seemingly 180 degrees off.
View attachment 3721536
Is this possible?
Can this be reoriented without removing and disassembling and reassembling the distributor? That vacuum diaphragm looks off too by like 30-45 degrees… I’m confused how this even runs?
Thoughts? Thanks!

I had the same type of issue and couldn't for the life of me figure it out. What I did was tightened the belt so I could turn it over by hand with the fan then you need to put your spark plug in but as loose as you can get it so you can hear when you hit the compression stroke. Turn it over until you are on the #1 compression stroke. Once your there watch the piston and once it gets close to tdc look just above the starter at the access hole and watch for the bb and the tdc mark. (bb will come first). PASS THE BB and go to the tdc mark. Once there pull the dizzy out if its not already and put the cap on it and mark where the #1 pickup is at. Once you have done that take a long flathead and line the oil pump up pointing at #4 sparkplug. Now with your mark made and the cap off rotate the rotor so its pointing behind the 4th spark plug because as it slides in it will turn counter clockwise. With it all the way in the rotor and mark for #1 should be pointing at #4 spark plug. Once that is lined up make sure through the access hole that the line is still showing tdc. Now pop the cover back on, The spark plug back in and see if it starts. MAKE SURE THE DIZZY SLIDES ALL THE WAY IN. you may have to pry the clamp open a little. But if it doesn't drop in all the way then you wont be pumping oil. Now start it up and it should idle but if not have someone hold the rpm steady and low. Take a timing light to the flywheel and it should be flashing on tdc. Loosen the dizzy and turn it until you start to see the bb. Now your set to 7* BTDC

 

[Grayscale]

Hold-up. Distributor removal and replacement is tricky. And, the manual describes getting things oriented before pulling the distributor. If it is replaced incorrectly, oil pressure will be lost, and you will ruin bearings in a matter of minutes.

The only way to confirm the camshaft's position, and therefore the valve-train for purposes of confirming the distributor's rotor position, is to check the valve lash.

I hope I got this correct. One crankshaft rotation, as indicated in the flywheel inspection window, will reveal that some valves are closed (there is rocker-arm clearance) and others are open, based on where the camshaft is in the cycle. "A" is 7-deg. before-top-dead-center on the compression-stroke (the ball in the flywheel inspection window).

There are two crank rotations for every one camshaft/distributor rotation on a four-stroke engine; here is an animation.

I can't say for sure, however, this head had a bent valve stem. I had to get it out by cutting the valve face off. There was also a crack in the top of the valve guide from the deformed valve being pushed into it. The head was sold to me by as "needing a valve job." (the tech decided to go 2FE, on his girlfriend's '82 60, obtaining parts, straight pushrods and a working head assembly from a 3FE) My best guess is that he fired cylinder #6 on the exhaust stroke; could the pressure in the cylinder been so great that it slammed the valve shut against the force of the camshaft and rocker arm? The alternative assumption is physical damage in handling, after already deciding on doing the upgrade on a vehicle, which he reminded me, wasn't his.

My suggestion is to not do guesswork regarding timing; you can dial-it-in to tune it, but no major guesswork.

 

[45Dougal]

How is it running if its 180 degrees off? Check your leads.
The rotor must be pointing at whichever pot is at tdc, regardless of whether it's on its compression stroke, otherwise it won't run.

Don't start pulling things apart if they work. Mark the position with a pen, then loosen the clamp and try adjusting slighty while idling - you'll soon find out when it gets worse.

Sounds like you have bigger fuel problems - maybe better off buying a new carb?

 

[45Dougal]

Also.. suck on the vacuum line and check it advances correctly while you're in there.

 

[82Blu]

Update: timing light revealed it was right on the bb…
Also, solved my starting problem. After many attempts at the carb, 3rd time IS a charm. Discovered there was NO ball bearing to act as an accelerator pump check valve. Now, I get great squirts with every (not just the first) pump of the pedal.
My check cleared for my personalized historic plates so I anticipate getting them soon and I’ll be on the road!!!
Thx for all the feedback and advice.

 

[45Dougal]

Update: timing light revealed it was right on the bb…
Also, solved my starting problem. After many attempts at the carb, 3rd time IS a charm. Discovered there was NO ball bearing to act as an accelerator pump check valve. Now, I get great squirts with every (not just the first) pump of the pedal.
My check cleared for my personalized historic plates so I anticipate getting them soon and I’ll be on the road!!!
Thx for all the feedback and advice.

Wow cheques (checks if you prefer). Haven't seen one of those for 20 years - are they still a thing?