Is it death wobble?

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Hi all, here with another potentially dumb question, because I am not actually mechanically literate (see username).

From what I've been reading about death wobble, it tends to happen when you hit a bump, or occasionally on sharp stabs of the brakes?

The problem that I've been having is that if I get it up over about 45 mph, then pretty regularly when I brake down back through that same range (about 50-40 mph or so), even when braking smoothly, it still sometimes starts the steering wheel shimmy and the whole front end gets squirrely. It's usually pretty mild or even absent, but on too many occasions recently it is getting semi-violent and very unnerving. I'm not sure if that is "death wobble" exactly, or another problem. Also, I've read that death wobble is usually countered by braking harder, whereas my problem seems to get better if I let off the brakes, then get back on them again, though it sometimes takes 2-3 off-and-ons to stop it happening. This scares the crap out of my girlfriend if the reason we are stopping is because there is another car stopped in front of us...

So does that sound like a typical case of death wobble in an 80? Or is it something else? I've fairly recently (recently enough that this shouldn't be a problem) had tie rod ends redone, and no other steering or suspension issues were noted by the shop at the time. The only thing I can easily notice underneath is that the boots/bushings/whatever on the ends of the straight rod that goes across behind the front axle (I do not know the name of this rod/bar thingy, so please feel free to enlighten me) appear to be crushed on one side and possibly oriented on somewhat different angles... see attached pictures for the left (first pic) and right (second pic) of that observation...

Any ideas? If people are going to suggest checking things like panhards or other components, it would be really helpful to have a pic or description of where those are on the 80, since I haven't had great luck trying to find a breakdown of what and where all the components of the front axle are, and even if I did, I don't actually know what I'd be checking... Hell, I only just learned what a pitman arm is, and I'm still not entirely certain what it does (guess is just locating other components?).

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Sounds like the wobble of death to me.

Check your frame for cracks where the front panhard mounts.

Here is a video example of the wobble. I would be surprised to ever see it this extreme on a cruiser but anything is possible.

 
Yes, you are describing death wobble.

Please state, for the record, you make, model, year, mileage, lift or suspension modifications and recent work.

There are many things that come into play.

Panhard bar bushings
Control arm bushings
wheel bearings
worn trunnion bearings
tie rods ends
drag link ends
frame cracks
steering gear worn
bad tires

All of these items can come into play. Look them up on here and you'll find pictures.
 
Sounds like the wobble of death to me.

Check your frame for cracks where the front panhard mounts.

Here is a video example of the wobble. I would be surprised to ever see it this extreme on a cruiser but anything is possible.



I don’t know where the front panhard mounts! Hahaha. Been trying to educate myself, but I’m a complete tourist when it comes to this stuff…
 
Yes, you are describing death wobble.

Please state, for the record, you make, model, year, mileage, lift or suspension modifications and recent work.

There are many things that come into play.

Panhard bar bushings
Control arm bushings
wheel bearings
worn trunnion bearings
tie rods ends
drag link ends
frame cracks
steering gear worn
bad tires

All of these items can come into play. Look them up on here and you'll find pictures.

Most of that info is in my signature line - 1996 LX450, 215K, OME 3.5” lift, with 305/70R-16s. It seems to have been built for 315s, and I’m going back up to those soon, but I don’t know if a slightly smaller wheel diameter would mess things up like this and it hasn’t always done it…
 
Most of that info is in my signature line - 1996 LX450, 215K, OME 3.5” lift, with 305/70R-16s. It seems to have been built for 315s, and I’m going back up to those soon, but I don’t know if a slightly smaller wheel diameter would mess things up like this and it hasn’t always done it…
Sorry, missed that.

Smaller tires typically make it better, larger tires make it worse.

Steering damper and shocks can also have an effect on this, as well as alignment.

They all come together to make a very loose assembly.

Basically, you start with tie rods, then work your way through the list.

The panhard bar is what is listed below as "ROD ASSEMBLY, FRONT LATERAL CONTROL" When you bend over and look under the front of your truck, you see two rods. One is the drag link that attaches the steering gear to the lower right steering arm on the right front knuckle.

The other is the panhard bar that attaches to on end of the axle housing and the other end to the frame under the steering gear.

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The yellow thing is the steering damper

The rod just under and behind it is the drag link.

The next rod with the bend in the left side of the picture (right side of the truck) is the panhard bar (lateral control rod assembly)

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The yellow thing is the steering damper

The rod just under and behind it is the drag link.

The next rod with the bend in the left side of the picture (right side of the truck) is the panhard bar (lateral control rod assembly)

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Thank you! So now that I can identify the panhard, how do I check it? What am I looking for to know if it is causing the problem?
 
Thank you! So now that I can identify the panhard, how do I check it? What am I looking for to know if it is causing the problem?
bad bushing, cracks in frame where its welded..
 
Thank you! So now that I can identify the panhard, how do I check it? What am I looking for to know if it is causing the problem?
You look at your bushings under the truck that are pressed into each end.

The bushing in my hand is the old one. See how it is weather checked, cracked, and dry and it is delaminating from the bushing. That's a problem.

The new bushing is already pressed into the rod end on my front panhard bar.
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Follow the panhard up to the frame. Look around the frame where it mounts closely with a bright light. You will probably want to use some kind of degreaser and a rag to clean the frame really well before you check it.

There rigs can develop cracks in this spot that will cause a bad death wobble.

If the frame is good than follow the other posts above and check all your suspension bushings, steering stabilizer, and tie rods. All of these items can introduce play into the system and create a death wobble.
 
Some pics of the frame mount and the area around the bushings. Everything feels pretty solid when I yank on it, and I’m not seeing any crack, but I haven’t taken it off to check bushings or followed the advice above to clean carefully and use a bright light… can bushings be checked without removing the panhard bar?

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Pics of a cracked panhard frame bracket and some ugly welding to glue it back together.

In the first pic, the rusty line where the bracket meets the frame is the crack.


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Some pics of the frame mount and the area around the bushings. Everything feels pretty solid when I yank on it, and I’m not seeing any crack, but I haven’t taken it off to check bushings or followed the advice above to clean carefully and use a bright light… can bushings be checked without removing the panhard bar?

View attachment 2674241

View attachment 2674242

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In your second picture, the left side, you can see hunks of your bushing blown out.

You DEFINITELY need new bushings. I would suggest you do ALL your suspension bushings with OEM, especially if they have never been changed.
 
Pics of a cracked panhard frame bracket and some ugly welding to glue it back together.

In the first pic, the rusty line where the bracket meets the frame is the crack.


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If that’s where it cracks, then I think I’m good…

also, thanks to you in particular, and to everyone else who’s been kind enough to walk me through some of this without judgement!
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In your second picture, the left side, you can see hunks of your bushing blown out.

You DEFINITELY need new bushings. I would suggest you do ALL your suspension bushings with OEM, especially if they have never been changed.

Alright, so panhard bushings are bad. Good to know!! Thank you!

might be time to head to a shop, I definitely don’t have the know how or tools to knock out old and press new bushings…
 
Would also check straightness of rims and tire balance.
New tires are on order and should hopefully be in in another month (going to 315/75R-16s), and will definitely get those balanced before going on, of course. I’ll try to remember to ask them about rim straightness (are we still doing phrasing?)
 
New tires are on order and should hopefully be in in another month (going to 315/75R-16s), and will definitely get those balanced before going on, of course. I’ll try to remember to ask them about rim straightness (are we still doing phrasing?)
Also look for "Road Force" balancing. It's a specific type of machine and gets a better balance on big tires.
 
Also look for "Road Force" balancing. It's a specific type of machine and gets a better balance on big tires.
Does Discount Tire do it? That’s where the new shoes are going on when they arrive…
 

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