Insurance (1 Viewer)

[TexYoung]

This may not be the right forum for this question, but you have all had experience with it. I have my '73 40 insured with a classic car insurance company but I am not really following the rules. They want it garage-kept which cant happen due to the fact that I have other classics in my garage. They also will cancel me if they find out I use it off-road.

I called my daily driver company-Safeco and got a quote and asked them if I had it off-road if they would pay for an accident. Opened my big mouth at the wrong time I guess. They said since I have planned off-road events that they would only give me liability insurance. I know a few agents from Farmers, Liberty Mutual and State Farm and they all told me the same thing. "Don't mention the off-road and they would insure it. However, if you file an off-road claim it will get paid and then you will probably be cancelled and your VIN# on the Insurance Industry black-list". I like to be upfront about things so I can keep relationships long-term.

Anyone's insurance company cover off-road claims without freaking out about it? Any agents out there that can comment?

Thanks much!

 

[Weber Sarge]

I have never found any insurance company that would outright insure for offroad use - you take it offroad and wreck it , that's your problem . Yes , some companies have paid claims and cancelled people , as expected . Sliding a brand new Jeep down a near-cliff and smoking a tree is pretty serious - they totaled that one out before the first payment was made . Now , his insurance rates are sky-high from that claim with another company and others have quoted even higher - it can come back and bite you . Mind you now - this is in Illinois , other states may vary - which I hate .

I went through the whole farce getting classic insurance quotes on my 40 - none of those companies are really enthused about insuring these things since there is such a following for using them offroad . Yes , garage is always required and most want it locked securely . They are looking at the highest rate of claims being theft of the vehicle for declared value , hence their rules . The good thing about most of the classic companies is they'll insure the vehicle (if garaged) and it's spare parts ,ect in case of a total loss fire - that could be a good thing . Rates are usually pretty cheap , but the rules do apply and you can't really blame them ...

I just got mine with State Farm - it's not restored and carries only liability and comprehensive to cover mother nature when it's parked . The rest is my problem , and that's fine since I'd never allow an insurance carrier to total my classic and scrap it - I can fix it or sell off it's collective parts anyway . Putting full coverage on it without a classic policy or at least a declared , agreed value is a waste - they will only pay what they think a 40yr old vehicle is worth...and that is usually an insult at best .

Sarge

 

[toyotaspeed90]

You're lucky they will even give you a quote.

I used to be big into first generation Toyota MR2's - and as such, I auto-crossed them (at legal venues, set up through an organization that paid for use for the lot, paid for lot/tenant insurance, etc etc etc).

I called many insurance companies requesting quotes on an mr2 (and at the time my ex, her 2010 corolla, my 2004 IS300, our motorhome, our explorer.... and potentially switching our home insurance). I was up front about using the MR2 for auto-x purposes. At the time between the 2 of us we had 1 speeding ticket.

Only 1 insurance company even said I was insurable.... at all. The rest flat out said that since one car would be used for "racing" purposes that I couldnt' be insured. I told them all, and was extremely clear that these were all legal, sanctioned events with proper safety measures and insurance in place - and that it is far more responsible to be in this type of event than anything that may be done on the street. (At the time I was even VP of the organization who put the events on).

Some of these companies included - Geico, Farmers, State Farm, Progressive, and Pemco.

So I went with the 1 company that didn't have a problem with it, and they explained the vehicle wasn't covered if something were to happen during an event. I'm not here to advertise so I'll leave which one it is be.

If your name actually is Dane Young, you may not want to be posting online that you aren't following the insurance rules - though not likely, if you get into an accident on the road now, they could retroactively cancel your policy leaving you holding the full responsibility of the accident (including the other parties damage/injuries if applicable).

 

[toyotaspeed90]

If a company exists that provides coverage for off road use (during off road use) - it probably won't be worth it. The risk of damage is extremely higher than normal driving conditions - and the pool of those wanting off-road insurance is quite small... so your premiums would be ridiculously expensive.

 

[TexYoung]

I have never found any insurance company that would outright insure for offroad use - you take it offroad and wreck it , that's your problem . Yes , some companies have paid claims and cancelled people , as expected . Sliding a brand new Jeep down a near-cliff and smoking a tree is pretty serious - they totaled that one out before the first payment was made . Now , his insurance rates are sky-high from that claim with another company and others have quoted even higher - it can come back and bite you . Mind you now - this is in Illinois , other states may vary - which I hate .

I went through the whole farce getting classic insurance quotes on my 40 - none of those companies are really enthused about insuring these things since there is such a following for using them offroad . Yes , garage is always required and most want it locked securely . They are looking at the highest rate of claims being theft of the vehicle for declared value , hence their rules . The good thing about most of the classic companies is they'll insure the vehicle (if garaged) and it's spare parts ,ect in case of a total loss fire - that could be a good thing . Rates are usually pretty cheap , but the rules do apply and you can't really blame them ...

I just got mine with State Farm - it's not restored and carries only liability and comprehensive to cover mother nature when it's parked . The rest is my problem , and that's fine since I'd never allow an insurance carrier to total my classic and scrap it - I can fix it or sell off it's collective parts anyway . Putting full coverage on it without a classic policy or at least a declared , agreed value is a waste - they will only pay what they think a 40yr old vehicle is worth...and that is usually an insult at best .

Sarge

Thanks Sarge, very good advice and well taken on my part.

 

[RobNasty]

Underwriting practices and policy provisions are two different things.

An insurer may not want to insure you if you plan to frequently use the vehicle off-road, as the likelihood of damage to your property, injury to you, your passengers and others, and damage to property owned by others all increase. Insurance companies don't want to take on unreasonable risks.

As for policy provisions, and "coverage" once you've obtained a policy, you need to read the specifics of your policy, which will vary between insurance companies and between various jurisdictions.

My policy excludes liability and physical damage coverage for the ownership or use of any vehicle while off public roads and being used for any prearranged or organized racing, speed, hill-climbing, jumping, or similar contest. I wouldn't expect recreational off-roading to meet the definition of prearranged or organized ... contest.

 

[Norcalcruizer]

I have Farmers insurance and yes they cover off road claims for vintage vehicles. There are no "restrictions" on how you use the vehicle. I also have it covered for a guaranteed replacement value, obviously blue book would be way off.

 

[SuperBuickGuy]

This is what I do... your results may vary:
1) classic cars - classic car insurance; always. Because nothing beats hearing a main-stream insurance company tell you that your 70 Nova is worth $200.00 (and then the fight begins).
2) Daily drivers - always get mainstream insurance coverage because you cannot live within the mile limitation on collector car policies
3) 4x4s - if I can live with the mileage limits, I insure them as RVs.
4) while you are building your rig - your car is simply "goods" until it is titleable. In the State of Washington that means that a motor is in the frame with a body on the frame. During the building phase, consider collector car garage insurance - it's really cheap, but if badness happens you will get repaid your loss (such as trying to light your FJ40 on fire while tuning it....)

A problem to always consider is this: Stated value cost is directly tied to the amount of the value (yes, makes sense but follow along); most of us who build our own vehicles have 1/3rd the value of the vehicle in its build cost so insurance on my FJ40 would be for the value of what I have in it. So say dumb trucker runs over my FJ40 - his insurance carrier (and I use commercial insurance because they're bastards) will say "oh, your vehicle is only worth that stated value... here you go" then the fight begins/ Unless that difference is easy to prove - odds are they'd win the fight. RV insurance is a bit different because you're valuing it at replacement cost - but that isn't stated value think of it as "we will pay up to that value." Then commercial trucking company in the example pays me ICON values rather then covers my cost value.

That said, if your '40 is a daily driver, consider getting liability and comprehensive insurance and not collision (then drive sane). If you're really into bouncing off rocks in your DD - I'd suggest getting something more appropriate for that activity. If you must have comprehensive - then a high deductible for anything less than a total should make your insurance company happier to insure you.

No mainstream insurance company is easy to deal with. They all follow the principle stated in the movie The Incredibles "insurance companies don't make money paying claims"... oh, and a word to the wise... before the fight starts, don't mention that line to the adjuster - leave that statement to be made by your attorney.

 

[srgould41]

Someone mentioned above about what an insurance company thinks a 40 year old vehicle is worth. Not much. I have about $20k into my 40. If I had full coverage and wrecked it there is no way the insurance company would shell out $20k. I contacted the collector car insurance companies for a quote with a defined value. The use restrictions are so high you can hardly pull it out of your garage. Many 40 owners can't even fit in a garage... I scrape the door opening when pulling it .

Since I knew my insurance company would balk at insuring me if I told them the vehicles intended use I didn't bother. I only asked for the minimum liability required to cover the other party if I hit them. If I wreck my 40 off road it's my fault anyway. There is no way I would take it to a shop for repairs so why have full coverage?

 

[Weber Sarge]

@SuperBuickGuy hit it right on the head - Daily Driver's are pretty much non- full coverage insurable , plain and simple . Now , if mine were restored , it would get driven a lot less and the Collector's insurance comes into play . That said , their restrictions are through the roof and if you actually did a current market potential on a declared value it would be quite expensive . There really is no easy answer - but from the above I may seek out a quote from Farmer's - State Farm is burning me due to credit history from a WorkComp stint , which is about as unfair as it gets . A very long time ago I was a customer of Farmers and had great results with them , who knows how they are to deal with now .
Sarge

 

[Irish11]

Insurance is actually something I have been wondering about as well. What is the consensus on collectors insurance vs traditional if you only drive the vehicle a few times a month?

Right now, I drive the FJ40 mainly to and from work, or to a club meeting. I might take it on a club trail run at some point, but for now I keep it garaged and only take it out when the weather is nicer (read: only lightly raining here in Seattle). Right now I have liability on it, but worry about someone hitting me traffic and damaging/totaling the rig. I've looked into collectors insurance briefly and the limitations on use were as you guys above pointed out, a very long list. Insurance is one of those things that always seems a little confusing to me.

From the Hagerty Insurance Site:

Truck and SUV qualifications
Classic trucks and SUVs must meet the following requirements:

Stock

• 1995 and older
• Vehicles in good or better condition
• Trucks or SUVs under restoration may be considered
• Minimum values may apply
• We can consider limited towing and hauling up to 20 times per year

Modified

• 1995 and older
• Minimum values may apply
• Extreme off-road modifications such as brush guards, roll bars, tool boxes and lift kits with large off-road tires will not be accepted
• We can consider limited towing and hauling up to 20 times per year.

I have a resto-mod setup, restored Fj40, but with a 4" lift and 33's. I also have a Metal-Tech Jackson roll cage (not that I want to use it, but it is safer than the stock one). I am guessing by those rules I cannot apply for insurance with them. Thoughts?