Incredibly Impressed With Bridgestone's New Blizzak DMV1

[turbocruiser]

Well we recently replaced the DMZ3's we had with my wife's vehicle and put Bridgestone's new Blizzak DMV1's on. WOW!!! I always thought that the DMZ3's were wonderful (and I still do) but right away I absolutely noticed improvements in accelerating, braking and cornering with the DMV1's on almost all available driving surfaces (haven't tested the bumpy dirt roads in the hills here yet)! I've put some pretty stressing miles on them in all sorts of stuff and they are absolutely awesome. The are moderately grippier on regular dry roads, much grippier on wet roads without ice, about the same on snow that's hardpacked, about the same on slushy stuff, and much grippier on smooth sheet ice. I'm very impressed indeed. I also found some interesting stuff online where some folks setup a 4Runner with DMZ3's, and then with DMV1's and even with one type on one side and one type on the other side. Very interesting videos I think.

YouTube - ???? ????? BLIZZAK DM-Z3 (?????? ???? Bridgestone)

YouTube - ???? ????? Blizzak DM-V1 (?????? ???? 2009)

YouTube - ???? ????? - ?????? (Blizzak DMV1 vs BLIZZAK DM-Z3)

YouTube - ???? ????? - ?????????? (Blizzak DMV1 vs BLIZZAK DM-Z3)

Okay, so to the 80 specific stuff (why I put this here instead of in another area) I'd like to ask everyone's advice. The largest tire in the DMV1 is the 275-70-16 it is 31.2 inches in diameter down from the 33's I've got now. Because of the size difference and because of the rubber difference I have confirmed I cannot use my RUD chains with the Bridgestone Blizzaks (any of them).

I have also confirmed I cannot safely go through this winter with my Revos; they are at about 6/32 to 8/32nds now. So I need to decide to either get new Revos, and this time get them specially siped for increased ice traction, OR get the Blizzaks and forget about forever using my chains.

Although day to day use is important, the most important thing with the cruiser is "get through anything that winter throws at me ability" and so far I've found nothing that the combination of Revos and RUDs can't get through even on some aggressive snow runs off road where we were essentially pushing snow by the bumper.

Because our other winter weather vehicle with DMV1s can handle almost anything short of snowfall more than 6 - 8" and because we can pretty reliably predict when we will get more than 6 - 8", I think I can pretty reliably predict when I would NEED to use the cruiser (big blizzard).

So essentially I'll use our other vehicle as much as possible throughout the mild to moderate conditions and when we get good and slammed out will come the cruiser with Revos and Ruds. Unless that is, Bridgestone's new Blizzaks would outperform even that combo??? So that is the question, which combination would you think be best for the "anything that winter throws" category on our cruisers? Thanks.

 

[IdahoDoug]

It's hard to overstate how much an 80 on winter specific rubber is capable of. I think this combo would be way better than the Revo/chain combo on nearly anything, with deep churned snow being the exception owing to the paddle effect of the chains. One big factor that I always use to justify having snow specific tires on is accident potential. Winter tires are $750 round numbers and with used rims it's $1000. A single fender bender due to an unexpected ice patch is gonna be your deductible, plus any rate increase and of course the inconvenience. So I look at them as an investment in total mobility under ANY conditions, plus when I make that 2-3 times per winter mistake and find myself on glare ice coming up to a stop sign, or the guy in front of me spins on the interstate - these tires will keep me out of trouble.

So, I'd go with winter specific tires. The Blizzaks are going to be amazing (as you found on the other vehicle) and will easily outperform the chain setup on probably 100% of road conditions and 60% of offroading (though they'll pop on stumps that the Revos might not). One comment on Blizzaks is that they only have the winter rubber for a certain % of their tread depth (50?) where Michelins are winter rubber full depth. Don't buy the argument that after they're 50% worn you won't be using them for winter, either. We drove through the longest and worst blizzard of my life last year on Michelins worn below 40% without a slip or hint of instability, and the'll be in service this year on my DD.

YMMV..

DougM

 

[UCBerzerkeley]

very cool videos, pretty sweet. My firestone MTs suck on ice, but hey, you don't buy an MT for ice conditions. at least they are pre-drilled for studs

 

[chtucker]

The related video that came up with those links was cool... YouTube - Test - Snow Climbing Cars was filmed in Leadville, Colorado at the local Community Colllege

 

[turbocruiser]

Thanks for the thoughts fellas, Doug, how deep was the snow and stuff for that big blizzard you drove through with the 80 and the winter tires? Thanks again.

 

[Bearcat80]

You can get the Yokohama I/T Geolander snow tires in 285/75/16. I haven't put the time into researching these tires, but that's where I would start if I was considering dedicated snow tires. That being said, I run Toyo M-55s with the Les Schwab siping and I do great in what snow I run into around here. I've not had to chain even in deep bumper pushing snow. However, I would not feel great about them on ice.

 

[jlg32281]

Move to Texas and forget about winter tires!

 

[PACNW96]

Good stuff... I've been impressed with the snow performance of my siped Nitto Terra Grapplers. I was looking for a single set of tires for year around use and IMO they fit the bill well...

Last year visiting my in-laws in Spokane they topped 62" of snow in December alone and I was impressed. I'm sure a dedicated snow tire would have done well too and most likely better on ice.

 

[SUMOTOY]

General Ice Tire comments

In some 15 years of going to the Steamboat Ice Track, the advantage of winter tires has gone to the Blizzack due to the ice silica compound. Since that time, Nokia and Michelin and others have joined the 'ice' compound fray. The 'improvements' to the tread designs and sidewalls have really not given a significant advantage to any of these ice tires since Blizzack introduced the WS50 over 15years ago.

IME, we see all winter compounds and 'newest' flavors at my Steamboat Ice Track Event every year. The bottom line: The ice compound is the advantage, beyond that really comes down to the driver skillset. In fact, I still run 10 year old (dedicated Steamboat track) WS50, and find the 'newer' designs of any flavor still don't best the 'original' compound in any significant test.

I'm with Doug on the summary, for 100% of on0road winter driving, a dedicated winter ice tire will be better 100% of the time. For mixed driving it will be better for the majority of the time. Chain driving will best an ice tire rarely... The real question IMO, is which tire do you put on that covers the majority of your winter driving? A bad fit would be to put on a tire/chain combo for 10% driving in extreme conditions.

My .02

Scott J
Eventmaster
Steamboat Ice Driving Event 2010
USAudiClub.com

 

[IdahoDoug]

Turbo,

Frankly the conditions were often those that would be worst for tires without much tread depth - churned snow 6" deep+. We were at low speeds for 5 hours - mostly under 30mph except when it cleared briefly. The worn ice compound Michelins (Arctic Alpin SUV or 4X4 I think is the name) did great - glare/black ice was just like when they were new in terms of grip. We passed (again at very low speeds -(15-20) rows of stopped cars by driving in the trackless fast lane that had over a foot of snow and often 2 feet in spots/drifts) and not once did the truck even falter. I'd venture to say we literally never even spun a tire in all that time. So, they got my endorsement and now we have the new version on the family 80 (Latitude X-Ice SUV).

DougM

 

[turbocruiser]

In some 15 years of going to the Steamboat Ice Track, the advantage of winter tires has gone to the Blizzack due to the ice silica compound. Since that time, Nokia and Michelin and others have joined the 'ice' compound fray. The 'improvements' to the tread designs and sidewalls have really not given a significant advantage to any of these ice tires since Blizzack introduced the WS50 over 15years ago.

IME, we see all winter compounds and 'newest' flavors at my Steamboat Ice Track Event every year. The bottom line: The ice compound is the advantage, beyond that really comes down to the driver skillset. In fact, I still run 10 year old (dedicated Steamboat track) WS50, and find the 'newer' designs of any flavor still don't best the 'original' compound in any significant test.

I'm with Doug on the summary, for 100% of on0road winter driving, a dedicated winter ice tire will be better 100% of the time. For mixed driving it will be better for the majority of the time. Chain driving will best an ice tire rarely... The real question IMO, is which tire do you put on that covers the majority of your winter driving? A bad fit would be to put on a tire/chain combo for 10% driving in extreme conditions.

My .02

Scott J
Eventmaster
Steamboat Ice Driving Event 2010
USAudiClub.com

Actually the "original" compound has been beyond bested by the new nano compound and there are lots and lots of technical studies to exactly this point and Bridgestone's happy to provide them. I spent some fascinating time on the official tech line about this with both a chemical engineer and a mechanical engineer from Bridgestone, but I'm sure you somehow claim to know much more than them right? Do you somehow get some pleasure in purposely always presenting things the wrong way here? Do you think that Bridgestone would echo or endorse your statements?

 

[SUMOTOY]

Actually the "original" compound has been beyond bested by the new nano compound and there are lots and lots of technical studies to exactly this point and Bridgestone's happy to provide them. I spent some fascinating time on the official tech line about this with both a chemical engineer and a mechanical engineer from Bridgestone, but I'm sure you somehow claim to know much more than them right? Do you somehow get some pleasure in purposely always presenting things the wrong way here? Do you think that Bridgestone would echo or endorse your statements?

Again, I look at the variables that can not be bested by driver skillset. I know that the 'ice' technology has made very small steps - for more on Blizzak evolution go here
Bridgestone Blizzak Chill Zone
(er, notice in the pic, that's the track I run my event on - see my public profile pic)
I also know that we have several members of our group that buy their tires brand new to run on this Blizzak Sponsored Steamboat Ice Track. Since we have had several sets of the WS60 on the track with the latest technology you reference for 2 years now, I claim that the new tech doesn't outperform the old tech beyond driver skill.

"Endorse"? I have run with many of the Blizzak Test drivers and Corporate Instructors at the track, and know many of them well. Marketing and testing is a line often muddied. 15 years of running and testing a wide variety of ice compounds, including on my 80, I trust my statement holds true, any 'ice' compound tire is the 'ticket'. Better with nano technology? Better than what? I've seen no "ringer" tires appear at the same track that does Blizzak winter tire testing. It's only 'better' if the driver skill-set is not the bigger variable.

Please feel free to bring your 'new' tires to our Steamboat Event in February, and demonstrate whatever study you would like to reference.

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged
Eventmaster
Gruppe-q Steamboat Winter Ice Track Event 2010
USAudiClub

 

[IdahoDoug]

Sumo,

I think it's hard to get past this statement: "In fact, I still run 10 year old (dedicated Steamboat track) WS50, and find the 'newer' designs of any flavor still don't best the 'original' compound in any significant test." because there's no question the newer designs are better than yours. None. In addition, a tire molded in 1999 would have significant degradation and hardening which would cause a soft winter compound tire to suffer greater traction loss on its specialty - ice - than even a normal tire does after 10 years of aging. So, I think it may be a bit of a stretch and calls your impartiality into question.

Also, I'll have to check, but I heard that TireRack's testing or Consumer Reports testing gave the advantage to the Michelin over the Bridgestone winter tires.

DougM

 

[turbocruiser]

Again, I look at the variables that can not be bested by driver skillset. I know that the 'ice' technology has made very small steps - for more on Blizzak evolution go here
Bridgestone Blizzak Chill Zone
(er, notice in the pic, that's the track I run my event on - see my public profile pic)
I also know that we have several members of our group that buy their tires brand new to run on this Blizzak Sponsored Steamboat Ice Track. Since we have had several sets of the WS60 on the track with the latest technology you reference for 2 years now, I claim that the new tech doesn't outperform the old tech beyond driver skill.

"Endorse"? I have run with many of the Blizzak Test drivers and Corporate Instructors at the track, and know many of them well. Marketing and testing is a line often muddied. 15 years of running and testing a wide variety of ice compounds, including on my 80, I trust my statement holds true, any 'ice' compound tire is the 'ticket'. Better with nano technology? Better than what? I've seen no "ringer" tires appear at the same track that does Blizzak winter tire testing. It's only 'better' if the driver skill-set is not the bigger variable.

Please feel free to bring your 'new' tires to our Steamboat Event in February, and demonstrate whatever study you would like to reference.

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged
Eventmaster
Gruppe-q Steamboat Winter Ice Track Event 2010
USAudiClub

Surrrre, get anyone official from Bridgestone to actually officially agree with anything you wrote there. That I'll believe, you I won't. And look anyone can rent that track ... it isn't "your" track ... it isn't anyone's except Bridgestone's. You just run an event with a few friends there every year, which is cool, but it isn't what you try to make it here. You are so full of yourself and so full of it.

Lastly I'd appreciate that if you want to write an answer to my thread's question, you answer the question and not stir stuff up which is wildly meaningless. You really think I'm going to give someone that per their own admission is running either 10 year old rubber (on your quattro) or badly bald rubber (on your cruiser) around Steamboat for $$$ per hour more than those old and bald tires are worth any thought at all? I mean come on, I'm stupid, but thaaaat stupid, no way!

 

[Jule]

The largest tire in the DMV1 is the 275-70-16 it is 31.2 inches in diameter down from the 33's I've got now. Because of the size difference and because of the rubber difference I have confirmed I cannot use my RUD chains with the Bridgestone Blizzaks (any of them).

There is a 33" DMV1, the 285/70R17. I was pricing the DMV1s with a set of wheels last Saturday (probably go with the American Racing Mojave) and will be ordering them up for my 97 very soon. Gives me an excuse to get a set of 17" wheels so I can run 37s later

Thanks for the comparison between the Z3 and the V1. I had the Z3s on my 05 100 last winter. Looking forward to getting the V1s.

 

[turbocruiser]

There is a 33" DMV1, the 285/70R17. I was pricing the DMV1s with a set of wheels last Saturday (probably go with the American Racing Mojave) and will be ordering them up for my 97 very soon. Gives me an excuse to get a set of 17" wheels so I can run 37s later

Thanks for the comparison between the Z3 and the V1. I had the Z3s on my 05 100 last winter. Looking forward to getting the V1s.

Hmm, I hadn't even thought of that, excellent idea both for the DMV1s and for the 37s!!! Excellent idea indeed. Thanks. I should start searching some 17" wheels. I still don't think that I can run chains with the Blizzaks because it isn't just the size it is the rubber. This is an assumption though and not something I've specifically heard or read. Has anyone here successfully run chains with Blizzaks? Thanks again I appreciate your post.

 

[IdahoDoug]

I'd ask Bridgestone your question regarding compatibility of their winter tires with chains. On its surface, it would seem logical that chains are OK with ANY tire, but the more specialty rubbers and tires come down the pike the more often it seems there are caveats. It would indeed suck to find out the compound is not abrasion resistant to chains and tear them up somehow.

On the 17 inchers - aren't these a lot more expensive than 16s? They used to be but perhaps now there are so many 17 inch tires I'm just behind the times....

 

[SUMOTOY]

Surrrre, get anyone official from Bridgestone to actually officially agree with anything you wrote there. That I'll believe, you I won't. And look anyone can rent that track ... it isn't "your" track ... it isn't anyone's except Bridgestone's. You just run an event with a few friends there every year, which is cool, but it isn't what you try to make it here. You are so full of yourself and so full of it.

Lastly I'd appreciate that if you want to write an answer to my thread's question, you answer the question and not stir stuff up which is wildly meaningless. You really think I'm going to give someone that per their own admission is running either 10 year old rubber (on your quattro) or badly bald rubber (on your cruiser) around Steamboat for $$$ per hour more than those old and bald tires are worth any thought at all? I mean come on, I'm stupid, but thaaaat stupid, no way!

TC, you live closer to that track than I do.... It's not "my track", never said it was, the February 1 and 2 is my track EVENT, has been for 10 years. I also drove my 80 with Blizzaks on that track for over 32 hours. I tested 80 VC vs locked diff, braking, tire pressure and airbag pressure, and posted my thoughts in a thread here. A total of 400hours at that Blizzak track in the last 10 years, and 500 track hours at that track in the last 15. In that time, with my background as a ProRally competitor, I developed a well informed opinion about winter tires, performance and driver skillsets.

I also answered your question... I personally believe that the benefit of chains is a specific winter tire condition that is a fraction of overall winter driving. I share Doug's concern that the soft compound of the Blizzak will not do well with chains, but again, for the amount of time you will be running them, not sure it matters.

Do yourself a favor, and sign up for the Bridgestone Winter Driving School (a requirement to run my event) 1-800-WHYSKID. You can put the best and latest winter tire equipment on your truck (and I'm not knocking that, only any claims it has some significant advantage over any other winter 'ice' compound tire). AND, you can take a variety of skillset courses on ice that will help you understand the opinions I hold.

It's obvious from your post, you could use the basic education. In addition to the BWDS, my Gruppe-q Steamboat *event* is going back to back with USAudiClub Steamboat Event, the latter oriented towards more inexperienced ice driver skillsets such as yours.

I enjoy winter tires discussions, because I have a lot of experience with them. Come on out and play on ice Jan 30-Feb 2. I'm sure you will find the experience educational, and your opinion misinformed about my 10year old WS50's....

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged
Eventmaster
Gruppe-q Steamboat Winter Driving Event 2010
USAudiClub

 

[mot]

 

[turbocruiser]

TC, you live closer to that track than I do.... It's not "my track", never said it was, the February 1 and 2 is my track EVENT, has been for 10 years. I also drove my 80 with Blizzaks on that track for over 32 hours. I tested 80 VC vs locked diff, braking, tire pressure and airbag pressure, and posted my thoughts in a thread here. A total of 400hours at that Blizzak track in the last 10 years, and 500 track hours at that track in the last 15. In that time, with my background as a ProRally competitor, I developed a well informed opinion about winter tires, performance and driver skillsets.

I also answered your question... I personally believe that the benefit of chains is a specific winter tire condition that is a fraction of overall winter driving. I share Doug's concern that the soft compound of the Blizzak will not do well with chains, but again, for the amount of time you will be running them, not sure it matters.

Do yourself a favor, and sign up for the Bridgestone Winter Driving School (a requirement to run my event) 1-800-WHYSKID. You can put the best and latest winter tire equipment on your truck (and I'm not knocking that, only any claims it has some significant advantage over any other winter 'ice' compound tire). AND, you can take a variety of skillset courses on ice that will help you understand the opinions I hold.

It's obvious from your post, you could use the basic education. In addition to the BWDS, my Gruppe-q Steamboat *event* is going back to back with USAudiClub Steamboat Event, the latter oriented towards more inexperienced ice driver skillsets such as yours.

I enjoy winter tires discussions, because I have a lot of experience with them. Come on out and play on ice Jan 30-Feb 2. I'm sure you will find the experience educational, and your opinion misinformed about my 10year old WS50's....

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged
Eventmaster
Gruppe-q Steamboat Winter Driving Event 2010
USAudiClub

Scott, you as usual are making all sorts of stupid assumptions. Just because I brag much much less about myself than you do about yourself does not mean I'm inexperienced or uneducated or anything you insultingly and wrongly suggest here.

For your info I have had tons of professional and personal instruction on regular driving skills, defensive driving skills, offensive driving skills (yes that's what it was) and winter driving skills through the Department of State, Master Drive, and Mercedes Benz Club of America. I started "quarter midget" racing when I was 12 and did "half midget" racing as well for a short spell. For years and years I've participated in personal informal Pikes Peak Hill Climb runs with friends who've taken home trophies year after year in the real event. I've also participated in whatever Mercedes Benz Club of America events I could including comprehensive instruction from their test drivers. I've driven through parts of our planet that would shock you, literally with lives relying on our ability to get through no matter what and I've had more real world/ real life training through the Department of State alone than you've rented in that whole time at Steamboat.

So you sir can go copulate with yourself. I've never bragged about any of this because there's basically no point and aside from that no matter how much help I've had with specific driving skills, I'm still always learning, and I'm still always a student. You obviously think that you have had nothing to learn for a full 10 years and that nothing the people at Bridgestone have done during that time bests your personal "driver skill sets". What a joke. You are nothing more than a total megalomaniac as several other mud members have already asserted. Again if you think for one fleeting second I'm going to listen to someone running 10 year old tires through steamboat or badly bald tires through steamboat for a fee you are insane.