In need of guidance: 1978 BJ40 24V Charging Issue. (1 Viewer)

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Oct 22, 2019
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Location
Columbia, SC
Hey, fellow Toyota Diesel owners!

I've run into a charging issue on my 1978 Toyota BJ40 Non-NA RHD model. The powerplant is a Toyota B Series and the electrical system is the 24V system.

Here are the symptoms:

1. At idle, the ammeter shows negative voltage.
2. At running speeds w/o lights, the ammeter shows "top dead center." It's neither on the positive side nor the negative side.
3. At running speeds w/ lights on, the ammeter shows a strong negative draw.
4. It doesn't take long to draw down the batteries to a point of being unable to start.
5. Testing with a voltmeter shows 24.9v across both batteries, vehicle running. It should be showing 27-29v from all that I have read.

Initial trouble shooting steps:
1. Checked battery connections on both batteries.
2. Checked alternator belt tension.
3. Checked grounding cable to front driver's side (passenger side for those trying to visualize on left hand drive vehicles).
4. Continuity across battery cables is good.
5. Checked wiring for obvious visible issues.

Further down the rabbit hole:
1. After going through initial trouble shooting, I leapt on having the alternator tested since it was only showing 24.9v output when tested on the vehicle in the field. The alternator was dirty, so I delivered to a rebuild shop for testing, cleaning, and repair if needed. The alternator came back to me cleaned, inspected, and "in no need of repair." When asked what it tested at, they said they didn't have a test stand big enough to actually test it. After installation, the vehicle ran well and charged for a day... Then stopped. After doing a good bit of troubleshooting in the field and afterwards at home, I decided to have a professional give it ago.
2. Suspecting the alternator shop I had used, but entirely open to it being another issue, I had the vehicle delivered to a shop that is known to do a good bit of JDM vehicle work in the local area. I gave them two aftermarket voltage regulators, all the info I had, and told them about the suspect alternator cleaning. Being a busy shop, I told them I wasn't in a rush, but I did want it back in a reasonable time. Almost six months later, they tell me they are very confident that it is my alternator since they have done a good bit of trouble shooting and replaced my voltage regulator.
3. Classic Cruisers in Colorado took my alternator in and had a shop they use rebuild and refresh my alternator.
4. Shop installs my newly refreshed alternator. No change in status.

I'm stuck, folks.

What am I missing?
Has anyone had this issue before?
I've been reading forums here and I've done what some have done for positive results. Parts replaced, refreshed, and connections checked.
What else could be the issue?
Any ideas?
 
Hi,
At this point you could check the alt itself.
Disconnect the output B+ (secure the end of the cable, it's a 24v live from batteries)

With batteries at 23-24V, alt should be in full charge.
You could measure the tension between Field and Ground on alt plug, should be 24v. I don't think you need to start engine at this point.

If there is voltage on the rotor ( between F and G), you could start engine and see what's the output B+, if it's around 28v then it may be harness, fusible link...check if it goes through your amp meter?

If there is no voltage on rotor, you could check that the VR (external) get IG 24v.(with ignition key on "on" position.
 
At this point you could check the alt itself.
Disconnect the output B+ (secure the end of the cable, it's a 24v live from batteries)

With batteries at 23-24V, alt should be in full charge.
You could measure the tension between Field and Ground on alt plug, should be 24v. I don't think you need to start engine at this point.

If there is voltage on the rotor ( between F and G), you could start engine and see what's the output B+, if it's around 28v then it may be harness, fusible link...check if it goes through your amp meter?

If there is no voltage on rotor, you could check that the VR (external) get IG 24v.(with ignition key on "on" position.
Yes, the batteries are fully charged when installed.

The alternator doesn't seem to keep them that way.

When you say "field", to what are you referring? And how do I distinguish between the outputs? The letter thing has me thrown off and I want to be sure I understand. Are they labled on some plugs?
 
External voltage regulator?
Yes. External Voltage Regulator.

A stock one that looked in great shape was replaced with an aftermarket one.
 
Hi,
There is this thread which you should read, you will find a link for the ammeter in this thread too.
I'm not familiar with the 40 series.
Is your external VR is three or six wire ?

As far as I understand with a three wire VR you should have only a two wire plug on the alernator, F and E. ( I may be wrong)
If you have a six wire VR, you will likely have a three wire plug on the alt, F, E and N

the idea is to disconect the ouput of the alt going to the batteries B+ (the big wire with a ring type terminal. (be cautious with this wire since it's a live 24v from batterie!!!)
If there is only a two wire plug on the alt, that's the wire you want to measure the tension between. F and E are the connection for the rotor winding (exitation), they need to be supply in order to create a field and then induce current at stator...

Turn the key on on position and check for voltage between F and E on alt. If there a third one , it's N, don't bother with it. (since you have a 1978, I doubt you get it, for the alt light)
If you find 24v there ( F and E ), start engine and check the output on the B+ stud of the alt ( between the B+ stud and batteries ground ) it should ouput around 28 V

This image show the alt plug with the N for light, I don't think your's is like this. One way to identify , measure resistant between E and batteries neg, or engine ground, should be zero Ohm. The resistance between F and E ( the rotor winding) should be 19 - 22 Ohm ).
With ignition key on "on" 24V should appear between F and E.

1621960194837.png


You can see the alt output B+ (stud with nuts and isolator) on the left.
With engine running at 1000 rpm and the rotor receiving 24V between F and E, You should see 28V on the B+ stud ( in theory ).
1621960702587.png

Images taken from here on Mud.

Edit: did a mistake when wrote identify E (ground) from alt with an ohmeter. Resistance between E and engin bloc should be infinite because the ground is provided by VR. Both slip rings are insulate (F and E). Resistance between those two should be 19-22ohm.
Sorry
 
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UPDATE:

I picked up the BJ40 from the shop the other day after they had installed the alternator and a new voltage regulator (NewEra), neither of which corrected the issue according to the shop. They informed me they had the batteries charged by their chargers and it would start, however it would not charge in the vehicle while driving.

As I was driving home, I noticed that the ammeter was showing a positive charge while driving at high rpms. At idle, the ammeter showed "top dead center." I got on a good straight-a-way and turned the lights on to have the ammeter drop back to "top-dead-center" of the gauge. I came to a traffic light, with my lights on, and the ammeter showed a negative charge at idle.

@lacalvette I'm going to try and snag a voltmeter and test the connections as you suggested to rule out the alternator entirely.

One possibility I've been mulling over is that the VR may not have been set, therefore it's not charging as it should. So far we are down to possible grounding issue or maybe the VR not having been set.
 
Sounds like you might have found the cause!

There is a description of the test to do with rpm, light on/ off to determine if the voltage output is good (Rudi's thread).

You will have to raise the tab (just a little, almost an hair!) on the voltage regulator to get higher voltage from the alt before it goes in trickle charge.
 
Sorry your trouble is not solved yet.
I have seen cases with poor or corroded connections where the wires/cables enter their terminals; up inside and thus invisible almost.
If there are any main wires you can swap out for new you should do it.

I had an alternator shop make replacement battery and starter cables for me.
 
Can you confirm individual voltage of each battery when not running?
I'm going to get my own voltmeter this weekend, since borrowing one is impractical at this point. I'll get back to you with that info when I do and also try @lacalvette suggestion.

Trouble is, they wired in some craziness.

How is the beautiful Cape Town?
 
Consider a modern solid state regulator as replacement to the old style OEM relay regulator. My VR was intermittently overcharging and I replaced with this generic option. $12. Website where I bought it from below just for reference. Supplier is mainly a motor rewinder but these guys typically do some generator repairs too. Note you will lose charge light functionality but I have a voltmeter in the cluster anyway to monitor.

 
Consider a modern solid state regulator as replacement to the old style OEM relay regulator. My VR was intermittently overcharging and I replaced with this generic option. $12. Website where I bought it from below just for reference. Supplier is mainly a motor rewinder but these guys typically do some generator repairs too. Note you will lose charge light functionality but I have a voltmeter in the cluster anyway to monitor.

That may be the route I have to go once I get the wiring harness in. I'm going to have to take a voltmeter to everything and see what's going on.

Good to hear all is well in beautiful Cape Town. Hoping to make it there after all this COVID stuff is over.
 

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