Icon 3.0 King 3.0

[eizenjin91]

Curious if anybody is running icons new 3.0” front coilover? Or king 3.0” coilovers? Were you running 2.5” before? How does it compare? Stiff and responsive on road?

I currently have BP-51’s but going to be replacing it here in the next week or two. Figured may as well go with the bigger guy for my insanely heavy cruiser rather than the 2.5 (PS the BP-51’s will be for sell for a killer deal coming up soon)

Thanks for any feedback

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

I'd like to hear from someone with Icon coil-over 3.0s, because they don't have a 3.0 for the rear. And I don't see how overall ride quality will be very good if the very heavy back of a 200 series has a 2.5" trying to keep up. But... I haven't personally tested it, so what do I know?

 

[TexAZ]

@Roy Park has the icon 3.0 and a super heavy rig.

 

[eizenjin91]

I'd like to hear from someone with Icon coil-over 3.0s, because they don't have a 3.0 for the rear. And I don't see how overall ride quality will be very good if the very heavy back of a 200 series has a 2.5" trying to keep up. But... I haven't personally tested it, so what do I know?

That’s where I’m curious as well. My front is 3720lbs my rear is 4240. Logic would say I need a bigger diameter in the rear more than the front. It looks like icon does the 3.0 front and their 2.5 CDCV reccomended as the rear. I’ve ran icon 2.5’s and loved em they did great but they were on a lightweight Tacoma and 4Runner. Hopefully someoen who has it can chip in with their experience.

I did see this kit (holy money lol Get what you pay for) with 3.0’s front and rear.

Toyota Land Cruiser 200 / Lexus LX 570 King Shocks Stage 3 Race Kit - Starting at $2,565 w/ Free Shipping!

 

[mpho]

I am running ICON 3.0s and 2.5s in the back...The vehicle was built as an OutdoorX4 Magazine vehicle feature. I have just taken it on one trip so far...Responsive, stable, smooth, controlled are just some of the adjectives I would use to describe the ride. Helpful? Probably not...But, I will be testing the vehicle in earnest over the next two months...Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, and Colorado backcountry roads...Will report back.

 

[eizenjin91]

@mpho do you get a lot of wallowing and soft floatyness on the road or is it pretty firm and planted? Nice can’t wait to see it in OutdoorX4!

 

[Reckless]

I bought the Icons 2.5s F+R and usually wish I had spent extra for the 3.0s. But I think the rear makes a much bigger difference in ride quality for my driving style. The only reason I keep telling myself I am better off with the 2.5s is that I didn't have to lift the truck, just level it.

I hit alot of bumps and dips on Chicago roads and it feels like the 2.5s are bottoming out esp on the main city highways in the loop.

 

[Roy Park]

I have the 3.0’s up front and 2.5’s in the rear. I haven’t really put the truck thru it’s paces but for my style of wheeling, I like to have a bit more up front. It helps absorb some of the bigger hits. In general, I try to slow down for them but sometimes you have those oh s*** moments. I have a Tundra with a LT front and MT rear currently, so I’m used to having the front outperform the rear. But the Tundra is going under the knife in June to link the rear end which will make the rear match the front (or close to it).

 

[Markuson]

To me it makes sense that the bigs are up front, since the front is what takes the most extreme, abrupt hit at speed...especially in terrain like high speed desert running. By the time the rear hits, the fronts have begun moving the truck over, or up and out of the main dip or hit...and the rear has less to absorb.

I dunno...but after flying through Baja with several trucks rattling bolts loose...and ALL of them being in front...it makes sense to me.

 

[bloc]

Not only the fact that the front takes the initial hit, the front shock attaches to the suspension arm somewhere between the inner pivot and outer ball joint, meaning the shock is seeing less travel than the wheel by a certain factor, but the forces involved are multiplied by the same factor.

In the rear the shocks are controlling wheel/axle movement at much closer to a 1:1 ratio.

All of this to say for the exact same forces/movement on each axle, a larger piston is needed up front to have the same level of control.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

I’d have to respectfully disagree with the front taking/needing better dampening than the rear.

When the front hits something, it will have to deal with that hit, when the rear hits something, it has to deal with the same bump AND the force of the truck that wasn’t absorbed by the front shifting to the rear.

Also, the rear shocks are laid over to almost the same degree that the fronts are, so travel characteristics are the same. That’s the biggest rear suspension advantage the 200 has over the Tacoma/4Runner/FJ/Tundra as those rear shocks are vertical and are more like @bloc described.

For tuning, guys like @cruiseroutfit are going to be the be able to offer the real low down, so Kurt, what say you?

For me, and my past if living in West Texas with both a long traveled FJ and a 200. I lowered the front nitro charge from 290 psi to 270 psi, and with a winch bar, winch, and stainless steel skid plates, and am at C4C3. (See @TeCKis300, I like it soft if I can, but that means my payload has to stay constant)

But for my rear, I bumped nitro pressure to 305 psi, and run the BPs at C7R6 with a 2723 and only camping gear in the back.

When I ran across those long West Texas tracks that are just like Baja (I’ve been) my front doesn’t rock force to the rear, and the rear has the additional dampinging ability to stay flat and keep the front end down.

I’m not going to lie guys, when my rear axle hits anything at speed. I know the rear axle is cycling hard... but guys I swear, the frame stays perfectly flat, it’s perfect. I will say, the redesigned front BPs need less preload than the first run, so I need to bring that down a tad, but it’s quite smooth.

 

[bloc]

My point was less about the angle of the shocks and more about the fronts attaching halfway (roughly) along the lower arm so they see less total travel and piston speed, but more piston force. This is because the arm has a mechanical advantage.. as opposed to the shock acting on the wheel directly.

That said.. others probably know a lot more about this stuff than I do.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

My point was less about the angle of the shocks and more about the fronts attaching halfway (roughly) along the lower arm so they see less total travel and piston speed, but more piston force. This is because the arm has a mechanical advantage.. as opposed to the shock acting on the wheel directly.

That said.. others probably know a lot more about this stuff than I do.

I see what you are saying, but the rear shocks orientated on a hard angle means the same characteristics are at play.

Without going into a very long explanation of suspension geometry, look at the unlimited class that rear shocks are angled from the rear axle to a forward position. (Also notice that the pros run larger rear shocks. Now I get this is an extreme case, but the principles are the same)

The shock angles might look different because it’s the difference between independent and solid axle, but the geometry yields the same results. At least on the 200 because of the difference mentioned earlier. The rear axle housing swings also. The best example is to look at how much forward the rear tire moves when at full droop, to when the tire pushes to the rear at full compression. Hang a plumb bob from your rear bump stop and let the rear axle hang.

 

[Reckless]

I rode my car with front icons installed with stock rear suspension and after. It was night and day difference. To be honest changing the fronts didn't feel too much different from stock with stock rear shocks. I was at first pretty disappointed but the next day I drove it with the rears on and the vehicle felt much better. There could be other factors at work here but the feeling of the suspension taking hits was more felt in the rear than the front.

 

[eizenjin91]

Interesting I dropped by a local Phoenix shop here SDHQ that does a lot of suspension stuff. Serena is very knowledgeable. She strongly suggested not the 3.0 for my cruiser with my weight. She said the 2.5 has multiple different front coil weights but the 3.0 while offering a lot more damping only comes in a 600lb and when they’re doing them on tundras as soon as they add winch and bumper they cant get them set right. I’ve always ran 700lb front coils on my icons with bumpers and winches. The king does offer up to a 750 coil but they’re 8 weeks out at a minimum confirmed from a 2nd vendor filthy motorsports (high order volume).

So now I’m really stuck. I guess 2.5’s weighted correctly?

 

[TexAZ]

what is your driving style? for trails/overlanding/daily driving the 2.5s with the proper spring rate will be amazing.
if you were looking to do high speed runs across the desert or down through mexico pre-running, the 3.0s may be a better option.
Of course a light weight truck would be better for that than a 8000 lb. overland rig with a bunch of stuff bolted to the roof.
None of the guys that ran through Baja last month had 3.0s and they all did fine.
Willie Beamin has been running Icon 2.5s for several years with heavier springs to compensate for the TJM and winch, he seems pretty happy with the set up.

 

[mpho]

Interesting I dropped by a local Phoenix shop here SDHQ that does a lot of suspension stuff. Serena is very knowledgeable. She strongly suggested not the 3.0 for my cruiser with my weight. She said the 2.5 has multiple different front coil weights but the 3.0 while offering a lot more damping only comes in a 600lb and when they’re doing them on tundras as soon as they add winch and bumper they cant get them set right. I’ve always ran 700lb front coils on my icons with bumpers and winches. The king does offer up to a 750 coil but they’re 8 weeks out at a minimum confirmed from a 2nd vendor filthy motorsports (high order volume).

So now I’m really stuck. I guess 2.5’s weighted correctly?

I got my from ICON with the heavier coil...Not sure if they did something special for me and/or the magazine.

 

[mpho]

@mpho do you get a lot of wallowing and soft floatyness on the road or is it pretty firm and planted? Nice can’t wait to see it in OutdoorX4!

Firm and planted...However, not a lot of experience with the yet. The ride become better the faster I go. Oh boy!

 

[eizenjin91]

I got my from ICON with the heavier coil...Not sure if they did something special for me and/or the magazine.

That's super weird! They came from Icon that way? I called Icon direct and talked to their sales guy he said all theirs leave the shop with 600lb coils and physically don't have any other weight coils that fit the 3.0. He said he knows some dealers are trying to find coils that work but nothing from icon. I wonder if they did something super crazy for the magazine build. You sure it was a 700LB? He did say the Tundra's come with 550LB and the LC200's come with 600LB.

Thanks for the feedback buddy!

 

[TexAZ]

@mpho, looking forward to seeing the truck this weekend at expo. If it is still with you, can you snap a pic of the coilover.

Most springs have the part number printed on them. If you see a number on the spring please share it.
Odds are, if you have a 700 lb spring the builder went custom with eibach or some other brand.