I need some advice on buying MIG welders; old vs. new

[spdwaver]

I am in the process of buying a new or used MIG welder, but I need help in making the right decision with regard to buying new or (potentially) getting more with buying used.

With a new unit, I know I will have a machine that has some guarantee that it will work; and if there are any issues, I can have it repaired under warranty.

With a used unit, I can spend far less for more machine, in many cases, but I will have to do the repairs myself. If it is simply a matter of replacing capacitors, or some other component that is not too costly, I do not mind going this route.

More specifically, I want to get the most welder I can for the money I will be spending, but I don't mind having to perform any of the repairs myself. Ultimately, I want to buy a welder that I will not outgrow within the next five years.

For a new unit, I am considering a Millermatic 211 or 212, based on features, reputation and the fact that I will be buying new.

For a used unit, I am considering a "Miller Vintage Series 250 Mig Welder", a Millermatic 250 (not an "X" series) and a "Miller 35". All are used, of course, and all seem to have a good reputation (with exception to the varying opinions on the MM250).

My budget will be between $800 and $1500.


Thank you in advance for your insight.

 

[PAToyota]

I picked up a MM250X (without meters) many years ago for under a grand. It has been serving my needs ever since with no problems. No repairs required other than new tips and a new nozzle and I think I should be considering a new liner before too long.

Do you mean a "Vintage 250" or a "Vintage 200" in your description? The old 200 machines seem to be favored by a lot of people out there.

I have seen a number of comments about the MM250 not being a good machine. And it went from the 250 to the 250MP to the 250X to the 250X with meters to the 251 pretty quickly - which I sort of took as trying to fix various problems. The meters are sort of "whiz bang" additions and I'm not sold on them really being worth that much more. So I think they had the problems pretty much sorted out by the 250X.

Not really familiar with anything pro or con on the 35 unit.

My advice on buying a used piece of equipment is being honest about your welding abilities first. With a fair handle of welding and the ability to try the machine out before buying, you should be able to tell how the machine responds.

The advantage that I've had with the 250X is that for most of the welding I do I never hit the duty cycle. Note that the 212 has twice the duty cycle on 220V at 160amps (60%) as the 211 has on 220V at 150amps (30%). Unless you REALLY had a need to consider being able to use 110V, I wouldn't bother with considering the 211 if you were going new.

In comparison, my 250X has 100% duty cycle up to about 160amps or more and 60% duty cycle for over 200amps. As I said, I've never run into the duty cycle of the machine. I can weld at 160amps all day long and if I'm doing heavier stuff than that, it isn't as likely that I'm working continuously.

 

[zebrabeefj40]

I have a MillerMatic 35. As I understand it these were the first all-in-one-box mig welders on the market and were very popular. My machine was part of a 3 machines for $800 deal found in Boston by a friend. Judging from the bondo dust everywhere they must have been body shop trade-in machines. The two other machines were plug in and go while mine needed a fair bit of work to get running again. The machine itself was fine other than needing the grease replaced in the wirefeed gear motor and a new feedroll (one was missing a tooth - new roll was available from Miller). It already had a Tweeco #4 gun and whip but most of the small parts were gone. With a new liner, tip, nozzle and all the other little stuff it works like new again. All in (machine, all the repair parts, new regulator, 80cf bottle of 75/25 and a 11lb spool of wire) I think I've got maybe $600 in the machine. Sure I've bought a few spools of wire, bottles of gas and a few consumables since. But no real trouble with the machine itself.

For most of the work I do it's perfectly fine. I've hit the duty cycle limit a few times welding heavy cross section materials - like building a bender stand with a piece of 12" I-beam and 2" x 3/8" angle. Once the machine cools off it works fine. Only issue I have right now is I need different feed rolls to run .025 wire for some bodywork I want to do. I've got the PN for them but I haven't asked the welding supply store to order them in yet.

Some folks don't like the taps - thinking that infinitely variable controls are better. I've used both and have not seen where one is THAT much better than the other. Both types of controls will lay down good welds - if the guy setting the controls does his part right. That's the same with any machine though.

For your budget I think you could get a very nice shiny MM35 with all the goodies and still have some cash left over for a nice autodark helmet, some gloves and a leather coat or cape. Probably be able to hit the thru too!

In short, I have a MM35 and I like it. It's built simple and tough and is easy to keep working.

Nick

 

[spdwaver]

I picked up a 1980s Millermatic 200 today, for $550.00.

It came with a bottle as well as some eight-legged tenants. It is old and beat up looking on the outside, but the internal components appear to be in good condition.

It has a newer Tweco torch, and the outer cable looks good; I am not sure about the liner at this point, but I will change out anything that is necessary.

So, how did I do?

Now, these are the plugs that I am dealing with. I need to replace the connector on the cable to match the dryer outlet. Does Home Deport carry the style plug I need for the welder to mate with the wall outlet? Or, should I change out the wall outlet to match the welder?

I am curious if this welder will even work on this outlet - which appears to be 30 amps.

 

[PAToyota]

Here is the manual for it - curiously, the serial number does not match up: http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o1303p_mil.pdf

Googling the number on the plug, it is a 250V, 30amp, 2∅ plug. Which is odd because the data plate on the machine clearly states 230/460V, 40/20amp, 1∅. Does the outlet also say 250V? Or is that a 230V? Either way, it is a 30amp outlet. For 230V, the machine wants a 40amp circuit. So you really should use a 40amp outlet/plug and breaker.

So, how did I do?

That depends. How does it weld?

 

[spdwaver]

Thank you for the manual!

I will let you know how it welds, as soon as I change out the receptacle and blow a few fuses.

 

[spdwaver]

I hooked up the new receptacle, and when I flip the switch, the red power indicator is illuminated and I hear a very feint buzzing sound. When I press the trigger, nothing happens. When I press the trigger and bring the wire to the base metal, nothing happens.

What now?

 

[PAToyota]

Wire speed adjustment doesn't do anything?

When turned on, the machine should give a good solid hum. Pulling the trigger should engage the drive rollers and energize the wire. I'd start going through all the connections to make sure everything is intact. But this is why I always recommend trying a used machine out before putting down any money.

 

[spdwaver]

No, wire speed adjustment did nothing. I am getting ready to look through it in a little while.

 

[spdwaver]

I just can't get this thing to work.

I checked power at the on/off switch; it is good.

All connectors seem to be connected.

The jumpers...I hove no idea if it is jumpered properly.

The previous owner says he tested it at his shop only two days prior to me buying it, running 220V.

I should have left the welder there and not messed with it.

 

[Pin_Head]

Is the tip hot when you pull the trigger? If so, then the trigger and contactor relay work and the drive isn't. If not, check trigger and contactor function.

Can you take it back? It is a big sucker to haul around.

 

[spdwaver]

Is the tip hot when you pull the trigger? If so, then the trigger and contactor relay work and the drive isn't. If not, check trigger and contactor function.

Can you take it back? It is a big sucker to haul around.

No, the tip was not hot when I pulled the trigger.

We (the PO and I) were able to get it running. The PO was nice enough to drive up here and help me get it working, or he was going to buy it back.

The solution was to hook up two wires from the gun cable to the "Gun Trigger Receptacle". I thought that something had to be hooked up to that, but saw nothing coming out of the cable to confirm that. When I pulled the cover off of the liner where it connects to the machine, I noticed two small wires that were connected to nothing, and they appeared to have been cut.

The PO said that an employee of his really wanted to buy this thing, and so he thinks the employee may have sabotaged it; the wires had to be hooked up for it to work two days prior to him posting it on Craigslist.

Turns out that this guy was everything I thought he was - an honest guy. I bought this without being able to test it; but I took his word for it because I sensed that I could trust his word.

So, I now have a working welder. I tried some flux core that I bought at Home Deport to test with, and it burned right into a piece of .25" plate. What a difference, coming from a 110v Lincoln.

I do not have a regulator, but I do have a cylinder and I have a nice heavy spool of .035 211 innershield wire. I have never welded with gas, but now is my chance.

When I get everything sorted, I will post up some welds.

EDIT: I might buy a new torch for this: what would be considered a must-have? I have a Tweco on it now, but is there a better choice out there?

 

[Pin_Head]

Glad it worked out for you. Tweeco makes a good torch. you might want to see if a spool gun comes up for sale if you want to weld aluminum.

What kind of regulator are you looking for? I have a couple lying around that are for inert gasses.

 

[spdwaver]

Glad it worked out for you. Tweeco makes a good torch. you might want to see if a spool gun comes up for sale if you want to weld aluminum.

What kind of regulator are you looking for? I have a couple lying around that are for inert gasses.

I would say, "you tell me" -- but I suppose I should do my own homework. In other words, I need a regulator/hose to connect the gas cylinder to the machine (I assume either 75/25 argon or 90/10...but that is an assumption on my part, never having used gas before).

I will be welding on mild steel for the most part, if that helps. I may get into aluminum at some point, so I will be looking for a spool gun for a good price.

PM me what you've got/price/what you would recommend and we'll go from there.

 

[spdwaver]

That depends. How does it weld?

It welds really well, actually.

 

[Pin_Head]

It looks like you need a CGA 320 for the tank in the picture. This is CO2 only and uses a plastic or fiber disk as a gasket. CGA 580 is for inert gasses, like argon and argon-co2 mixes.
Check for the CGA number on your tank valve and then PM me. The regulator doesn't care which type of gas, but you might have to get a new stem so it fits the tank.

 

[spdwaver]

It looks like you need a CGA 320 for the tank in the picture. This is CO2 only and uses a plastic or fiber disk as a gasket. CGA 580 is for inert gasses, like argon and argon-co2 mixes.
Check for the CGA number on your tank valve and then PM me. The regulator doesn't care which type of gas, but you might have to get a new stem so it fits the tank.

Thanks, I will do.

 

[PAToyota]

Turns out that this guy was everything I thought he was - an honest guy.

It welds really well, actually.

Glad to hear that you got it all worked out. Sounds like you got a pretty good deal!

 

[fj40charles]

Nice score on the MM 200. That is one welder I will always have around to use.

 

[spdwaver]

Nice score on the MM 200. That is one welder I will always have around to use.

I have done a lot of research on this welder (much of the discussions you were a part of), and had concluded that this is the right machine. Essentially, I wanted more than I currently need, and this fits the bill perfectly.

One thing I would like to do, and have not had much success in doing, is to get a source for some replacement parts (spool hub assembly); and to straighten out the case and repaint it (I want it to look new). Do you know of a good source for replacement parts? I am willing to buy a second unit, for the sake of spare parts, if necessary.