I could use some help deciding on diesel Surf vs 80 series landcruiser

[clydesdale6]

I am trying to decide on purchasing a Hilux Surf with the 3L diesel or going with a landcruiser. I am not going to be doing major off roading. I am the original owner of a 7.3 powerstroke diesel pickup with a 6 spd manual. It is simple, reliable and gets great fuel economy for its size.
I would like this SUV to tick those boxes as well. I prefer manuals, but for this, I will consider auto. Please tell me what the pros and cons are of each model. I have done some google searching and that is what lead me to this website and forum. Thanks.

 

[drenmaster]

What year land cruiser? Kind of hard to compare any Hilux engines to Land Cruiser engines when it comes to diesels. They are on different levels.

 

[clydesdale6]

I was looking at a mid to late 90s model for both. I want to import something so I can get a diesel. I do not believe they made any usa diesels. What is so different about the landcruiser diesels? What kind of fuel mileage can I expect for each model? Diesel economy has been severely damaged by the insane increase in diesel price. So, economy is important to me. I understand the longevity, as I already own a diesel pickup. Thanks.

 

[drenmaster]

The 1HD-t and 1HD-FT are two of the best engines to ever come in a land cruiser. They are heavy duty where as anything in a Hilux was really not comparable. I have a 12Ht in my land cruiser and and get about 20mpg so with what you were looking at it would be about the same for mpg. They are more rare but you can find 80s with the 5spd and diesel engines as well.

 

[AirheadNut]

If you're comparing a diesel 80-series to a Surf, then you'll be looking at the 1HZ, 1HD-T (or -FT/FTE) to a 2L-TE or 1KZ-TE.

Pros of the 80-series platform will be a much more robust build, bigger vehicle (more interior space, better leg room and driving position), solid front axle, full-time 4wd, bigger, more powerful engine options (4.2L inline 6-cylinder, NA or turbo) and overall a more comfortable vehicle with more options. JDM models came with options like triple locking differentials, factory winch, heated seats, climate control, refrigerated center console, and more.

Cons of the 80-series are: hard to find in manual transmission variants, lower fuel economy (expect mid teens to possibly low 20's mpg), not cheap to maintain ($30+ oil filters, 12qt oil capacity, for example), larger exterior dimensions can be tricky on tight trails.

Pros of the Surf: small and nimble, better fuel economy (low to mid 20's mpg), more likely to be available with a manual transmission, somewhat cheaper to maintain (still not a cheap as something US-spec), more basic and simple overall.

Cons of the Surf: engines aren't as reliable (2L-TE can overheat easily and crack cylinder head, 1KZ-TE less so but still possible), lower powered (2L-TE will be slow, 1KZ-TE shouldn't be too bad), electronic engine management systems are old and often require maintenance, not as robustly built as the 80-series, IFS, fewer options and creature comforts, small inside with somewhat cramped driving position.

Aftermarket support for both platforms is quite good, since both were sold in the US with different engines. The Surf will require more upgrades and involved ownership to keep it running well and prevent the common engine failures, but will be cheaper to purchase and run on a daily basis than an 80. It really boils down to the kind of driving and ownership experience you want. Given equal, stock condition at purchase, a Surf will be more of a project than an 80. I've had both an HDJ81 and an LN106 Hilux (basically the trimmed down, no-frills pickup version of the Surf) and have a friend who had a Surf. The 80-series feels much more composed both on and off road, and is a tank-like driving experience with plenty of power for modern traffic. The Surf is small and light, feels more cheaply built and basic. The 2L-TE version is a little on the slow side for modern traffic, but a 1KZ-TE powered example should do just fine.

 

[liveoak]

If you are leaning towards the surf, I would suggest a 3rd gen 4runner 96-2002? with the 3.4 gas motor. Can be had in 4wd manual and even a rear locker. I don't think it gets any more reliable or simple with this setup. Having a Toyota factory diesel is cool but the 3.4 is hard to beat and will cost you much less.

 

[Devils Paw 80]

I was looking at a mid to late 90s model for both. I want to import something so I can get a diesel. I do not believe they made any usa diesels. What is so different about the landcruiser diesels? What kind of fuel mileage can I expect for each model? Diesel economy has been severely damaged by the insane increase in diesel price. So, economy is important to me. I understand the longevity, as I already own a diesel pickup. Thanks.

That is correct, no diesels were offered in US for these models. No doubt you understand that the imports are almost exclusively RHD. Canarian landcruiser exports does occasionally offer a LHD diesel 80 on their FB website. That is what I would choose, if interested in a diesel and able to afford one.

Good luck in your search. Total costs involved are typically quite high for importing a diesel Toyota 4x4, so you might consider liveoak's suggestion above if economy is a major consideration.

 

[clydesdale6]

You guys are a great help. What I am learning is that the Landcruiser is a beast and with its less fuel economy, not what I am looking for. It looks like I would be better served by the Surf. I am not doing any major off roading and the diesel pickup that I have now will out tow the Landcruiser. I can't justify getting 15mpg in an SUV. The truck I have now gets 14-15 in town and 17.5-19.5 on the highway.
From what I have learned, if I go Surf, it would be the 1KZ-TE and I would hold out for one with an intercooler. From what I understand, they are supposed to get 30mpg on the highway. Is that a reality or pure fiction? For my needs, the lighter Surf makes more sense. This sort of all started by looking at a new Tacoma. We liked it, but hard to believe something so small could get only 20mpg in a manual trans. If diesel prices did not become stupid in my area, the gas option would not even be considered. Right now, diesel is 40% more than gas. When I bought my diesel truck 20 years ago, they were the exact same price.
So, I never knew how amazing landcruisers were. But, they seem to be more than my needs for this particular vehicle purchase. So, I am currently leaning towards the kn185 Surf, which I believe has the motor I am looking for. Anybody know what kind of highway fuel mileage can be expected with this?
That being said, what kind of fuel economy can be expected with a gas 4 runner? Thanks again guys.

 

[Devils Paw 80]

I owned a 2000 4Runner for a couple years. It did better on gas than my '90 by a long shot. Should expect around 20 mpg, possibly more on the highway.

 

[ALX4X4]

I've got an LS 80 and a 1KZ LN106 running dual cases., both manuals.
For touring, the 80, for challenging tracks the Hilux.
If I had to slim down to 1 vehicle ( both are on limited use club plates 45 days/year each) I'd go the Hilux as they make up in bush what they lose on the highway and hten some.