How many safari's do you go on, (2 Viewers)

[Nay]

OK, here is ARB without the brush bar. It looks like an 80 again , if you can ignore the fact that I don't have Photochop and am working with highly inferior tools

The lines of the bumper itself are pretty good. I think it will be tough to get away from the "smile" look (dropped center for the winch, and then angled out to the sides), and ARB is pretty clean here in the basic lines. The key will be to pull this in with the smaller winch...if you can get it in 2" that would be huge, and then the side pieces can perhaps be smaller for better clearance?

But...how do you get anywhere without trimming the frame ends back? You leave them alone and they are still your approach angle limit.

If you trim but keep the basic angle of the frame, then you can let the lower part of the bumper act like an angled skid mounted flush against the trimmed frame...this "lip" would be small and maybe use heavier gauge? You are really planning for that to be a skid on an 80 just because of the frame design, and it shouldn't bend. Not sure if people would be willing to do this or not (I would )

Somebody with better tools will have to come up with a hoop design (if desired), but that top stuff has to go as that is the signature of an ARB bumper.

 

[Nay]

IMHO tube front bars look great and are great for improving approach angle but lack strength. At least ARB crash test their bars and have proven their stength both with these tests and with real world use.

I am wondering why it is that people think DOM is weak. I've run a typical winch bumper, and in my case at least, it bent relatively easily on the outer edges because it is difficult to use a thick gauge steel outside of the winch plate area for weight considerations (although how you angle to probable impact points can add a lot of strength...impact on a straight face vs. on an angled edge makes a ton of difference).

But, I could absolutely hammer my 2" diameter .120 wall DOM bumper on my last rig and only get scratches, and it weighed a fifth of the winch bumper (granted there was no winch plate). It was when I ditched the winch bumper and went to that design that I finally stopped thinking about bumper damage, both because clearance was so much better and because it didn't have any weak (thin) edge points. It is all how you brace and triangulate, which really isn't any different than a stamped plate bumper.

As for crash testing, obviously we don't have any data points for tube. Are you saying that ARB bought an 80 and crash tested their bumper to understand the impact on crumple zones, forces on a test dummy, etc, as compared to stock? Is that published anywhere? I've always been curious about the impact of "armor" on crash results, and would love to see this.

Toyota is apparently going to be crash testing the ARB bumper for the new FJ Cruiser so it can be offered as a factory option. I don't guess we'll ever see the results, but if you find them on a showroom floor that will be a major vote of confidence.

Nay

 

[DirtyHarry]

But...how do you get anywhere without trimming the frame ends back? You leave them alone and they are still your approach angle limit.

How come no one has mentioned Shotts' bumper yet with the trimmed frame?

 

[Mickldo]

I am wondering why it is that people think DOM is weak. I've run a typical winch bumper, and in my case at least, it bent relatively easily on the outer edges because it is difficult to use a thick gauge steel outside of the winch plate area for weight considerations (although how you angle to probable impact points can add a lot of strength...impact on a straight face vs. on an angled edge makes a ton of difference).

But, I could absolutely hammer my 2" diameter .120 wall DOM bumper on my last rig and only get scratches, and it weighed a fifth of the winch bumper (granted there was no winch plate). It was when I ditched the winch bumper and went to that design that I finally stopped thinking about bumper damage, both because clearance was so much better and because it didn't have any weak (thin) edge points. It is all how you brace and triangulate, which really isn't any different than a stamped plate bumper.

As for crash testing, obviously we don't have any data points for tube. Are you saying that ARB bought an 80 and crash tested their bumper to understand the impact on crumple zones, forces on a test dummy, etc, as compared to stock? Is that published anywhere? I've always been curious about the impact of "armor" on crash results, and would love to see this.

Toyota is apparently going to be crash testing the ARB bumper for the new FJ Cruiser so it can be offered as a factory option. I don't guess we'll ever see the results, but if you find them on a showroom floor that will be a major vote of confidence.

Nay

Nay, Just had a quick look for my old ARB catalogue but couldn't find it, I have the new 2006 one at work though. IIRC in the first couple of pages of the (OZ) catalogue there is a photo of ARB crash testing one of their bars on a 100 series? I think they spent a lot R&D getting air bag compatability.

I wasn't trying to imply all tube bars are weak. I reckon a tube bar of the correct design has the potential to be stronger than a convential bullbar design while still retaining clearance advantages. I just think that the pressed sheet metal lower bumper has its advantages and we shouldn't totally eliminate it from the design process just yet.

FOR, you asked if we would pay more for a better product. I personally would pay more for a superior product but it would have to be proven to be superior not just have good marketing as being better with out any real advantages.

Concretejungle, 35miles without seeing pavement, LOL, please tell me that was a typo. I know we're spoilt over here in OZ but we can go for days over here without seeing another soul. One of the big treks over here is the Canning Stock Route which takes about two weeks to travel along without seeing any civilisation. Fuel drops are required even for the most fuel efficient turbo diesels with extra long range tanks.

 

[concretejungle]

thought i would add, that the 80 cruiser set up as a safari type vehicle also lends itself great to festivals, concerts and tailgating.

 

[Mickldo]

thought i would add, that the 80 cruiser set up as a safari type vehicle also lends itself great to festivals, concerts and tailgating.

x2. Hard core crawlers don't have fridges, lights, dual batts, side awnings, etc.

My typical weekend hardcore trip involves going to Land Cruiser Mountain Park to watch a WEROCK or XTREME WINCH CHALLENGE round. While the comp is on we use the fridge, inverter, tailgate, etc. Then after the comp finishes for the day we usually go for a night run around the extreme tracks where I need the high clearance, rock lights, winch, spot lights, etc.

On my longer distance trips I have a lot of distance to travel on second rate roads to get to my destination. On these trips I need animal strike protection, spot/driving lights, UHF aerial mounts, etc.

 

[Land Speeder]

im sure someone on this forum could provide a vehicle for prototype products and testing.

Pick me pick me...
and I live down the road.... and that road has alot of gas stations so I can stop and fill up every 200 miles.

Frankie... THANKS for even thinking of offering more products for our market. I've custom built things for my wagon because either the product wasn't there or the price was too high. More often than not the price was too high is why I did it myself. With more competition the prices will fall...
Will you be going to Gray Rock or Morris Mtn next weekend? I would like to do both but at least Morris Mtn for the first time. Anyway, I'll be wheeling my wagon there and it would be cool to wheel with you.

 

[frankies off road]

Pick me pick me...
and I live down the road.... and that road has alot of gas stations so I can stop and fill up every 200 miles.

Frankie... THANKS for even thinking of offering more products for our market. I've custom built things for my wagon because either the product wasn't there or the price was too high. More often than not the price was too high is why I did it myself. With more competition the prices will fall...
Will you be going to Gray Rock or Morris Mtn next weekend? I would like to do both but at least Morris Mtn for the first time. Anyway, I'll be wheeling my wagon there and it would be cool to wheel with you.

Dont worry man we will be needing a local for R @ D just not yet

My junk ant ready to ride yet

 

[frankies off road]

A bumper that will pass government crash testing will not be as strong overall as a bumper built to hold up off road, and i seriously do not think ARB has US government aprooval of crash testing.


do you guys wont an aprooved crash bumper because if you do i guarnatee it will cost alot more than you wont to spend and fold up when you need it most.

 

[Nay]

Nay, Just had a quick look for my old ARB catalogue but couldn't find it, I have the new 2006 one at work though. IIRC in the first couple of pages of the (OZ) catalogue there is a photo of ARB crash testing one of their bars on a 100 series? I think they spent a lot R&D getting air bag compatability.

I wasn't trying to imply all tube bars are weak. I reckon a tube bar of the correct design has the potential to be stronger than a convential bullbar design while still retaining clearance advantages. I just think that the pressed sheet metal lower bumper has its advantages and we shouldn't totally eliminate it from the design process just yet.

Oh, I agree, which is why I took some crayon to the ARB above . I think most people will prefer a full bumper over tube...I like tube because it has the potential to give the best clearance and strength with the lowest weight, but the 80 is not easy...there always seems to be something in the way...

My own personal design goal is to create the capability of a taller lift without requiring the extra lift. It's not that an 80 can't handle more lift than 2.5-3", I just don't want it. I spend a lot of time in potentially extreme weather conditions with my family on board and I also like to rock crawl, and those are competing interests for sure.

So you give me a 2.5" lift that has the heavy duty feel of a taller kit and can run 35's, plus bumpers that give the clearance of a taller lift and also good protection, and by doing so you keep my overall costs substantially lower, and I think you have filled a major need in the market.

Nay

 

[frankies off road]

Oh, I agree, which is why I took some crayon to the ARB above . I think most people will prefer a full bumper over tube...I like tube because it has the potential to give the best clearance and strength with the lowest weight, but the 80 is not easy...there always seems to be something in the way...

My own personal design goal is to create the capability of a taller lift without requiring the extra lift. It's not that an 80 can't handle more lift than 2.5-3", I just don't want it. I spend a lot of time in potentially extreme weather conditions with my family on board and I also like to rock crawl, and those are competing interests for sure.

So you give me a 2.5" lift that has the heavy duty feel of a taller kit and can run 35's, plus bumpers that give the clearance of a taller lift and also good protection, and by doing so you keep my overall costs substantially lower, and I think you have filled a major need in the market.

Nay

Nay are you reading my mind or what ! I think you have some very good ideas.

 

[MTNRAT]

Originally Posted by frankies off road
CASTER PERFECTION at 0 to 6'' lift is obtanable

Now you have my attention.
Sean

 

[mickey_rubicon]

Frankies Off Road - Any update on the front bumber setup? Waiting in suspense. My TJM is getting more ragged than my favorite camping shorts. I will be happy to test a proto type.

 

[yosemitesamiam]

ARB bumpers do have small negative effect on entry angle when off-roading, but they greatly improve the entry effects of plowing into a deer at 75 MPH.

ROFLMGDAO!!!!!!!!:shotts:

Personal experience?

 

[frankies off road]

Frankies Off Road - Any update on the front bumber setup? Waiting in suspense. My TJM is getting more ragged than my favorite camping shorts. I will be happy to test a proto type.

Our 2.5'' lift has priority at the moment we are in development and design on bumpers and other products.

we do have a cool design and a prototype should be ready in a month or less ..

 

[LX_TREME]

Yosemitesamiam, please your avatar.. i can't think straight :hillbilly

 

[yosemitesamiam]

...nothing says "I kick the sh$t out of this pretty truck offroad and still drive it here to the mall with my pretty wife and kids where you happen to be staring at it right now wondering why your life sucks and what you'd like to do about it" like tube.

...if we all end up with Angelina Jolie's lips the world is gonna be a strange looking place

From the side, this tube style shows off the 80, it doesn't overwhelm it. From the front, you gotta decide whether or not you are comfortable walking around with your junk hanging out or whether you want to zip it up

Nay

LMAO...this post moved me to tears. I needed that.

 

[yosemitesamiam]

Yosemitesamiam, please your avatar.. i can't think straight :hillbilly

I'll take that as a compliment!

I'm still a bit new here and catching up with all these posts...I think this is all great.

I do concur with a few. Not only will I probably never rock crawl, but I think there are better rigs out there that are purpose built for that. I mean, these rigs can take a lot, and go to a lot of places and back just fine. If by "safari" style you mean up and over hills, through trees, and through a stream or river or two, I'm game. All in the name of some cool fishing/camping/backpacking. Sure, a rock or boulder or two might be on the trail, and worth going over but that doesn't mean necessarily that many of us will ever go to Rubicon in a FJ80, and try to master it...there are better vehicles that can be built for tackling that sort of stuff...and I don't know too many guys who load up for a week adventure in a huge SUV like these, with the wife, kids, dogs, and all their s***e (there, I said it) and try and go through Gate Keeper. I just don't.

So yeah, reading through the last 70 posts or so...I think we are on to something. I nice compromise between "oh s***e (there, said it again) a shopping cart just hit me, and I have $1,000 worth of damage" and cruising along at 90 and saying, "did you just feel something, I think I just hit a deer!"

 

[concretejungle]

..and I don't know too many guys who load up for a week adventure in a huge SUV like these, with the wife, kids, dogs, and all their s***e (there, I said it) and try and go through Gate Keeper. I just don't.

I can't wait to hear someone disprove that one.

You are right though, but the really cool thing is that if you really wanted to and could afford to possibly break something, these rigs WILL take you through gate keeper (or what was once gatekeeper) and back with the fam on board.

 

[yosemitesamiam]

I can't wait to hear someone disprove that one.

You are right though, but the really cool thing is that if you really wanted to and could afford to possibly break something, these rigs WILL take you through gate keeper (or what was once gatekeeper) and back with the fam on board.

with my wife kicking and screaming , and the boys laughing!