How did I NOT KNOW?!?!

[ksheffield]

Another thing to think about is how much policing we do within our own off-road/OHV communities? How many times have we run a trail, or camped at spot just off trail, and we find garbage, or in almost countless situations, shell casings everywhere. Last summer, while camping a few miles in south of Kyburz, there was an obvious camping location next to a creek. Place was picture perfect for camping which was allowed in the area. Only one problem, .22 shell casings were everywhere. Hundreds of them. Used about three plastic grocery bags to haul as many of them out as we could find.

While running trails at Gold Lake last summer, I came across a small deadfall blocking the trail. Hacked through it with my hatchet in about 30 minutes. Trail unblocked. Unfortunately, no one else thought to do that beforehand. There were signs of badly damaged vegetation caused by rigs bypassing the deadfall.

After those experiences, I see why groups and corporations would support closing trails. Doesn't mean I agree with the tactic, but I don't want to see that crap on the trails either. I would rather see the Sierra Club work with off roading communities to educate trail users, or partner with BRC to accomplish that. There's a high level of personal responsibility we have to take to set the example of the right way to use our lands.

To me, that's just as important as supporting groups like the BRC, or the Cal 4-Wheelers.

 

[rusty_tlc]

Another thing to think about is how much policing we do within our own off-road/OHV communities? How many times have we run a trail, or camped at spot just off trail, and we find garbage, or in almost countless situations, shell casings everywhere. Last summer, while camping a few miles in south of Kyburz, there was an obvious camping location next to a creek. Place was picture perfect for camping which was allowed in the area. Only one problem, .22 shell casings were everywhere. Hundreds of them. Used about three plastic grocery bags to haul as many of them out as we could find.

While running trails at Gold Lake last summer, I came across a small deadfall blocking the trail. Hacked through it with my hatchet in about 30 minutes. Trail unblocked. Unfortunately, no one else thought to do that beforehand. There were signs of badly damaged vegetation caused by rigs bypassing the deadfall.

After those experiences, I see why groups and corporations would support closing trails. Doesn't mean I agree with the tactic, but I don't want to see that crap on the trails either. I would rather see the Sierra Club work with off roading communities to educate trail users, or partner with BRC to accomplish that. There's a high level of personal responsibility we have to take to set the example of the right way to use our lands.

To me, that's just as important as supporting groups like the BRC, or the Cal 4-Wheelers.

I agree for easy access trails. On trails like Rubicon and Fordyce I've seen the amount of trash dramatically decrease. The first trip I made with BBCNN through the Rubicon it seems like we took out almost a full 30gal trash bag per rig. The last trip we barely had 3/4 of a bag total including our own rubbish. I think education programs have made a big difference. It's really common to see people stopping to pick up trash on those trails.

The shell casing thing is a whole 'nuther sore point with me. I'm a staunch right to bear arms kind of guy but I get really pissed at what shooters do and the trash they leave scattered around the landscape.

As far as the dead fall, it seems that trails that have stewards, like FOFT and FORT don't suffer from that kind of thing. Dusey Irshiam is a great example of a trail that has been adopted by a local club. IMHO one of the most positive, and hands on, things we could do as a group is adopt a trail.

Deer Valley comes to mind, but I think there is a club that already takes care of that trail. Eldorado Canyon seems like it could use a little help though.

 

[Krusty Krab]

Is that June or may 26th??

May 26th. Look at the last attachment Rusty posted.

I'm in for this. Are you in? My son is riding and we will probably bail at W#1 and then back out to 80 and home.

 

[spressomon]

Another thing to think about is how much policing we do within our own off-road/OHV communities? How many times have we run a trail, or camped at spot just off trail, and we find garbage, or in almost countless situations, shell casings everywhere. Last summer, while camping a few miles in south of Kyburz, there was an obvious camping location next to a creek. Place was picture perfect for camping which was allowed in the area. Only one problem, .22 shell casings were everywhere. Hundreds of them. Used about three plastic grocery bags to haul as many of them out as we could find.

While running trails at Gold Lake last summer, I came across a small deadfall blocking the trail. Hacked through it with my hatchet in about 30 minutes. Trail unblocked. Unfortunately, no one else thought to do that beforehand. There were signs of badly damaged vegetation caused by rigs bypassing the deadfall.

After those experiences, I see why groups and corporations would support closing trails. Doesn't mean I agree with the tactic, but I don't want to see that crap on the trails either. I would rather see the Sierra Club work with off roading communities to educate trail users, or partner with BRC to accomplish that. There's a high level of personal responsibility we have to take to set the example of the right way to use our lands.

To me, that's just as important as supporting groups like the BRC, or the Cal 4-Wheelers.

You are right...and we also pick up other trail user's waste. Some of it just happens by accident but most is purposely thrown out the window I don't get it really.

But the battles we are facing are being won or lost at the legislative levels; mainly in Washington D.C. and/or at the US Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management. On- trail and public use advocates have to be better funded to be able to match the very well funded and super organized efforts of the anti-access groups: Plain and simple.

I get a little pissed at the likes of Patagonia, et al, even though I own and use a fair amount of their (Patagonia) clothing, they preach about surfing, climbing and other human powered endeavors but they don't have any problem using motors whether on land, sea or air getting to their end-goal destinations. Never mind most of their high tech clothing is made from oil! Talk about hypocrites!

At the end of the day I truly believe the efforts of their likes, at the organizer level, is truly about the almighty dollar than anything else. There's big money in controversy. And if you start looking at the huge sums of money being donated to these types of organizations and the costs of "administration" within same you can quickly see their real motivation!

This explains why the same groups very rarely go up against more significant users/abusers/polluters of our public lands: Mining interests. Its because they know they'll waste their resource dollars fighting a battle they know they probably can't win. And for some reason its apparently easier to rally their troops against "recreationalists" than business related mining interests.

"We" just need to show up to the fight with something more potent than a butter knife...if we truly expect to win some of these battles.

 

[ksheffield]

"I agree for easy access trails. On trails like Rubicon and Fordyce I've seen the amount of trash dramatically decrease. The first trip I made with BBCNN through the Rubicon it seems like we took out almost a full 30gal trash bag per rig. The last trip we barely had 3/4 of a bag total including our own rubbish. I think education programs have made a big difference. It's really common to see people stopping to pick up trash on those trails."

That's one of the great things about this club.

 

[rusty_tlc]

<snip>
I get a little pissed at the likes of Patagonia, et al, even though I own and use a fair amount of their (Patagonia) clothing, they preach about surfing, climbing and other human powered endeavors but they don't have any problem using motors whether on land, sea or air getting to their end-goal destinations. Never mind most of their high tech clothing is made from oil! Talk about hypocrites!
<snip>

How many times have you seen toilet paper flags around a popular camp site on a hiking trail? Or new fire rings on a trail with high traffic? Or trail washouts from people cutting swtichbacks? And on and on.....

Un-educated people can do plenty of damage with out a gasoline engine powering them.

 

[spressomon]

How many times have you seen toilet paper flags around a popular camp site on a hiking trail? Or new fire rings on a trail with high traffic? Or trail washouts from people cutting swtichbacks? And on and on.....

Un-educated people can do plenty of damage with out a gasoline engine powering them.

Exactly! Its just the position/attitude of some of if not most of the companies that are trying to rid us of our fun in the back-country...they aren't as innocent as they believe and/or convey!

OTOH I'll tell ya...the hunter and fisherfolks have absolutely ruined Knott Creek Reservoir (just one example...). Too much time I guess to bury or better yet haul out their toilet paper let alone their own feces. So there it all sits in the bushes on the east side of the lake. Pathetic.

I was talking to Jack the other day about the Maze District of Utah. I was very reticent to commit to the: Advance registration/reservation of campsites; no pets allowed; no ground fires whatsoever, blah, blah, blah. But after exploring and camping in the Maze District with Andy and crew a couple years ago I must say the NPS's zero tolerance has made for significantly less visible impact and zero human debris/garbage, fire rings, etc. it resulted in a much better experience. Very pristine. And open to motors. So the two can coexist if the folks in the cage could just get edumucated.

So...I guess some folks do need to be leashed.

 

[chicago]

And this is part of what I think IS THE PROBLEM!!! a forum/ rally to EDUCATE the ignorant on this topic.
I believe that is people knew what was at stake, they might ACT differently.
I can't remember a run that was FOR the education of wheelers (that's obviously my population base).
However, groups like SC I don't think really care about the progress or trail maintainace... They just want us OFF!
I don't mind regulation cuz people in general are dumb an have a sense of entitlement now a days that is like nothing I've ever seen before.

 

[rusty_tlc]

It's not just about educating people, it's about image.

The public image of a backpacker is a clean cut collage age kid skipping through the woods and communing with nature.

The public image of anybody who drives a 4wd is a pot bellied beer swilling red neck thrashing through filed and stream gouging up the landscape. It takes a whole lot of positive publicity to change that image and not a lot of negative publicity to re-enforce it.

 

[spressomon]

^^^ Very well said Dan

Of note and related: A couple years ago Andy, Pasquale and I were in DV. On the way up either Middle Park or possibly South Park, I forget which one, we came across a brand new still smelling of fresh beer empty. IIRC it was a Coors light can . About another 1/8 to 1/4 mile or so there was another spent Coors light can. And this went on until we had collected ALL EFFING 12 CANS. TRUE STORY!

And the clincher to this story: After picking up the last of the 12 cans the a****** threw out his truck we shorty after came across the EFFING BOX FOR THE SAID 12 PACK!

And if that wasn't enough...we also did a run up Goler and found several of the big heavy Sapporo cans thrown out the vehicle onto the trail in similar fashion. Now these cans are expensive #1 so it wasn't exactly trailer trash that was throwing them out the rig.

We never did run into either of the idiots guy...gimmeaneffingbreak.


How do we educate this type of crud...much less the typical hunter/fisherman that really could care less about access?

 

[chicago]

IMO, you get the word and the education out there, get other wheelers on board and practicing and we help police our selves.
There's ALWAYS gonna be un reachable idiots, but the more people on board w/ the philosophy, the stronger the pressure there is to do it.

Optimistic maybe...

 

[chicago]

BTW....
Roughly HALF of deer valley and all of slick rock are NOT in Eldorado co.
We could run deer valley up to the S. Water crossing and turn around.

JUST SAYIN!!!

 

[rusty_tlc]

BTW....
Roughly HALF of deer valley and all of slick rock are NOT in Eldorado co.
We could run deer valley up to the S. Water crossing and turn around.

JUST SAYIN!!!

Fordyce is closer and the run to the first water crossing and back is about the same difficulty IIRC.

Plus you've never don ANY of Fordyce.

 

[chicago]

BTW....
Roughly HALF of deer valley and all of slick rock are NOT in Eldorado co.
We could run deer valley up to the S. Water crossing and turn around.

JUST SAYIN!!!

 

[chicago]

May 26th. Look at the last attachment Rusty posted.

I'm in for this. Are you in? My son is riding and we will probably bail at W#1 and then back out to 80 and home.

Aaaaah... I leave for Chicago sat!!
Need to go home and see granny Hansen before I start the new job while I can.

 

[psreno]

FWIW, I rarely buy anything from REI, extremely rarely because I'm a cheap a@* and can get about anything just as good at half the price elsewhere.

HOWEVER, we just bought the REI Habanero 0* down bag (womens) for my wife and it's the ONLY bag she's liked. We've tried many and they just don't cut it (and I don't scrimp here as a good bag IS survival-if you've ever heard my wife cranky). So if your wife gets cold feet consider this sleeping bag.