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M

Mongolman

Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Threads
22
Messages
65
Location
Mongolia
I have a 1992 RJ77 with a 22r. It is a third world model so a bit odd and the 22r is a rare beast here in Mongolia so getting parts is hard. Anyway it started very suddenly to make a bad noise. I pulled the spark plug wires in order and it seemed like all cylinders were working at least to some degree, but when I took off the oil cap it was puffing great bursts of compression so I figure it is a valve problem. Then I pulled the valve cover and find the valves look ok but one side of the timing chain is loose and looking down in the hole I can see that one of the guides has come apart from the bolt holding it and is flopping around like a fish.

So my questions are:
1. Would the timing chain account for the compression coming out the oil filler or is there another problem?

2. What parts should I replace while I am in there in addition to the actual timing chain?

3. Does anybody know a good parts place in Calgary, Canada as my daughter is coming from there in 10 days but knows nothing about what to ask for?

4. I have heard there are two different timing chain kits, one for older blocks and one for newer ones. I am guessing I have the newer one but not sure. The number on the block is 3516200. Can anyone enlighten me?

Sorry for the long explination.

Marlow
 
A new timing chain kit will come with new guides, which you will want to replace when you do the chain. Also at minimum you'll want a new front main seal. A lot of people change the oil pump while they are in there, but the pumps don't usually go bad. The puffing has me a little worried though, that usually means you are loosing compression past the rings. Can you do a compression test on it?

Just recently we had a thread or 2 about timing chain replacement. Take a look for those and read up. It's a good weekend job.
 
Are the guides plastic?

If so, how proficient at light fabrication are you?

As long as the chain has not put a hole into the cover it will be fine. Just put some REAL guides back into it.


Read this post

And this thread but go down a little then it starts

I'd say a vise, a hacksaw and some determination would end the plastic guides going back into my truck. I have never seen the plastic guide on the slack side break so at the very least get the tension side. They always break.
 
Mongolman said:
4. I have heard there are two different timing chain kits, one for older blocks and one for newer ones. I am guessing I have the newer one but not sure. The number on the block is 3516200. Can anyone enlighten me?

Sorry for the long explination.

Marlow
Click to expand...


Ahhhh, The Deck height changed from the original 20r (1975-1980) and 22r(1981-1984) to the 22R/RE from 1985-1995.

20R and the 22R blocks up to 1984 are the exact same except for the bore. Then in 1985 Toyota changed the deck height effectively lowering it and changing the piston wrist pin height on the pistons to accommodate. All 20/22R and 22RE's have the same crank and connecting rods.

See differences here:

20/22R timing guides up to 85 on DE-decked 22RE

attachment.php


Thats a 22RE Timing cover on a pre 85 block

attachment.php
 
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Ok so the compression thing could be another problem I will look around and see if I can find a compression tester.

Thanks for the help
 
Wont the compression be compromised with the slack in the chain possibly opening or closing valves when they're not supposed to?
 
Hilux said:
Wont the compression be compromised with the slack in the chain possibly opening or closing valves when they're not supposed to?
Click to expand...

Yes, but it wouldn't be going out the oil fill hole... it would go out the valves....
 
I wouldn't think the timing chain would have anything to do with the pressure in the valve cover. Even if a guide is broken, the vehicle can run/operate in normal conditions-my truck is a good example i.e. ran absolutely perfect but when I went to change the timing chain, the guide was in three pieces and one of those pieces was only connected by one bolt.

Maybe I am wrong though and you didn't mention if the truck was running abnormally.

Mileage?
 
The truck has 140,000 KM (about 100,000 miles) but they were hard miles as most of the driving here is off paved roads.

It was still running pretty good considering but when the noise really started we did not drive it far at all.

I am just going out the the garage and will turn it over on the starter and see if I can tell were the compression is coming from. Will post more after that.

Marlow
 
I guess I should qualify my remark. It was running and driving ok after this happened but was missing quite a lot. I was just surprised is was not worse.

I just turned it over on the starter but could not feel compression coming from any one cylinder (by putting my hand over the valves), but I could smell the fuel mixture. Also the chain seemed to tighten up a bit on the side that was extremely loose so I am guessing that it was making the timing vary at least enough to allow leakage of compression, but not enough for the valves to hit the pistons. Therefore I think I will try and get a timing chain kit and also a head rebuild kit (as it is better to get the parts if the nearest store is 10,000km away), but will change out only timing chain related stuff and see how it is.

Now the trick is to get my daughter to buy the right parts :rolleyes:

Thanks for the input
 
There are only a handful of possibilities in relation to the chain 1- It is normal 2- It has lost its guide but still normal i.e. not stretched (as was the case with mine at 175k miles) 3-Lost its guide, stretched and jumped a tooth causing timing issues 4-Breaks

It would surprise me if the chain is in condition 3 or 4 merely because of the miles. There are many many 22re's that go way beyond 100k miles without a timing chain replaced. Not saying it cannot happen. If it is the chain, I would think #3 is where you are at now.

Easy to find out.

Take the crank to TDC (Cyl 1 intake open) and see if the timing mark on the cam gear is at 12:00. Check to see that the dist is pointing to the #1 cyl wire. That will eliminate #3 as a possibility.

What was the "noise" that came before the missing and running poorly?
 
I think you are right, I am at number 3 and will check the timing as you suggest. I am not sure if the chain has stretched or not, but will replace it anyway. I think the noise before was the chain rubbing on a borken part of the guide or on the tensioner. WIll not know till I take it apart and I am going to wait of the parts to come on the 26th before taking it apart. I know the km are low but I don't know what oil the previous owners used (in the earlier years after communisum fell you could not get much except some bad Russian stuff) so maybe the oil was bad or they did not change it much and that contributed to the problem.

Hilux: so you are sayiing you used regular factory 20r guides and adjusted a bolt hole with a file and maybe grind a little on the top of one tab and cut some off the width lenght wise and presto new metal guides?

How much did you cut off the width?
 
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Mongolman said:
I think you are right, I am at number 3 and will check the timing as you suggest. I am not sure if the chain has stretched or not, but will replace it anyway.

Hilux: so you are sayiing you used regular factory 20r guides and adjusted a bolt hole with a file and maybe grind a little on the top of one tab and cut some off the width lenght wise and presto new metal guides?

How much did you cut off the width?
Click to expand...


I've never had to cut down the top of the tab you see others. But I think its b/c I used a thick solid metal H.D (the premium one) from Fel-Pro. W/ a lower thinner gasket you might have to grind the top of the tap down IDK.

All I had to do in my experience was chain saw file out a notch so I could bolt it to the block, thats all.

And like I said I did have the guide cut to fit behind the cover, naturally.


I gotta run, figure 1/4" maybe more
 
Alright, I'm back now.


If you'll look at the photos I linked in the thread you will see what has to be modified. Its reall small but you might can see. Maybe my monitor is setup different than yours.





Below is a list of the only after market suppliers, I know of that offer a steel timing chain guide for the DE-decked 22RE.

And they all seem to be modified in the manor I am suggesting.


LC Engineering Notice the elongated hole in the straight or "tension" guide.

1015024.JPG




DOA's Notice the tabs cut down a little bit so that they will fit where the head overlaps w/ the engine block.
I did not have this problem but I think its because I used a thick gasket.

Also notice the elongated holes.

This pic shows the 22RE timing cover. A 20/22R is deeper and will allow the guides to fit unfabricated. The two timing covers are different
page13_1.jpg



(see the heat mark from the cutting?)
doaguide.jpg



But like the post I linked with the part #'s, its up to you weather or not you want to fabricate them or buy them ready to go.


The width of the guide is the main problem. W/o cutting the guide down along its back, the cover will not bolt to the block.
 
I assume UPS goes to Mongolia.

If so, why can't you just buy from US and ship? It is really NOT a very big box and it does not weigh that much.

They sell kits that do not have to be fabricated and that are very stout.
 
Ya I can do the UPS thing but then it costs a bit and I might have to pay customs as well. Where as if my daughter brings it no customs or UPS.

Mongolia is a great place with lots of different places to see. Here is one picture to start you off.

Marlow
Bayankhongor sep. 07.webp
 
Mongolman said:
Ya I can do the UPS thing but then it costs a bit and I might have to pay customs as well. Where as if my daughter brings it no customs or UPS.

Mongolia is a great place with lots of different places to see. Here is one picture to start you off.

Marlow
Click to expand...


Nice hat Belushi :flipoff2:

180px-BluesBrothers.jpg





I want to see the rig :D
 
Mongolman said:
Ya I can do the UPS thing but then it costs a bit and I might have to pay customs as well. Where as if my daughter brings it no customs or UPS.

Mongolia is a great place with lots of different places to see. Here is one picture to start you off.

Marlow
Click to expand...

I follow. That is one cool pic. WHY are you there if you don't mind me asking?

In re: to the parts, then just have your daughter order the parts from the US and have them shipped to Canada. The fellow I used is out west so it would not take too long to get into Canada-at least I don't think so.
 
Ok here is another with the rig. It is basically a Japanese Prado (LJ78) but with the 22r, carbed, points ignition, left hand drive, 4 speed, seat belts only in the front, and the metal dash doard and hose out interior (no carpets or cloth). It has been a good rig and we have had some really cool trips.

I am working for a Christian humanitarian organization called JCS International. So I supervise different projects.

Marlow
Khinti bridge.webp
 
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