HJ60 - superglow - glow light only on for fraction of a sec (1 Viewer)

[kent5915]

hi guys

Just looking for ideas- I have an 87 HJ60 (24 volt) up in Ontario canada and its been bitter cold - anyhow for the last 2 yrs of ownership she has been a bugger to start in the cold.
Moreover been battling this winter- she has block heater even put new cord on it - and it works - also put an inline heater in lower rad - so she should be good to go but its not - The issue is probably a glow one - the glow plugs are NGK 14.4 vollt and were new fall 2012

what seems to be happening is my glow plug indicator light only comes on for a split second when I turn the key.

Ykes - seems to be a glow plug circuit issue - so I have checked my water sensor and its resistance seems to change with temperature hence sort of follows the graph that it should,

My relays all work - no matter I took them apart and cleaned the contacts inside the relays

I also took apart the pre heat timer box - cleaned all contacts and replaced a transistor that looked to be in rough shape - it actually had corrosion on it

I checked my resistors (on manifold) for continuity - they seem fine - no matter I took aprt and cleaned contacts

I checked my glow plug current sensor for continuity - it seemed fine - no matter cleaned up contacts

Now the voltage at the glow plug bar is low - around 6.8 volts - I believe it should be 14.4 for several seconds then drop down

so my question is this - what Am I missing that controls the length of time that the glow plugs take on full voltage (14.4 V) - My gut is thinking its something in that pre heat timer box is not right visually all resistors look good and we checked the capacitors with a testor and they seem fine

Any ideas - thanks in advance

Kent

 

[hj 60]

Hi Kent,
If one plug is broken you can have trouble. With the heaters it should start immediately.
The orange light has no indication about what is happening at the bushbar but in my hj it stays on for about three seconds.
I use a 24v light in the cab to see if it works.

Mine glows 20v and after a few seconds goes to 14v (about that, still thinking about buying a small voltmeter and attach it next to the light)
At least the 24v light is very bright the first seconds, 6.8 volts is not normal I think.

So new plugs in fall 2012 did not help at all? Can you borrow a timer box to see if it is broken, you did all the tests from the fsm?
When you start does it smell like burned fuel or nothing?

first 3-5 seconds of glowing with 24v bulb:

after that cycle, lower voltage visible max 10 seconds I think, while waiting for oil pressure and then driving away the light mostly goes out:

For the last two days my hj is parked in front of my house, but I cannot test easily big 4x4 tractor is helping me tomorrow:

 

[kent5915]

yes - a local friend has the same HJ60 - his light stays on for around 3 seconds - as I have said mine stays on for a fraction of a second - so to me there is something wrong and its connected to the indicator switch

I installed new glow plugs last yr mainly because I had just bought the truck and did not know its history - - now last winter I only used the truck occasionally thinking it need wortk - so I never tested it much when it was real cold - like -20 below celsius as it is now

I worked on the truck this summer - and did things like rebuild injectors etc - so felt confident that the HJ60 could become my prime winter drive

Anyhow it has not been drivable this winter (we are getting nailed this is a cold winter here and the cold part is yet to come) - so I have had to use my 85 mercedes diesel as my main car - which is sad ciz she has never seen a winter and I did not want her to

So I guess my next step is to try and find a pre heat timer box that I can borrow

Unless of course someone has a better idea

cheers

 

[Wheelingnoob]

I have chased all sorts of glow issues with my brothers HJ60. got it all sorted and starting great now.

The Superglow should put 20ish V through the plugs for a few seconds then drop down to 14V for a few more. The time for both glow events is dependant on temp. The light on my brothers now that everything is working right seems to stay on for about 3-4 sec then goes out. It keeps the 20V glow for another 4-5 sec at 5c then you hear the "clunk" as the 20V solenoid stops signalling that the 20V glow event is over. About 15sec after that you head a more faint click as the 14V glow ends.

We had the same issue you have with his this fall after an engine swap turned out the glow plug current sensor was not plugged into the engine harness so the timer was in a sort of limp mode. The glow light would flick on for a fraction of a second and would only give 6-7V to the plugs. As soon as I rectified that its starts awesome. Fired it up the other night at -10c with no smoke at all.

I would test it listening for the relays clicking on and off and see if yours is working right or not. The light seems to mean very little.

 

[kent5915]

thanks

thanks jeremy

You are the second person tp tell me that the glow plug sensor will cause this

Hmm - mine is plugged in, I tested for continuity and seemed okay - I also clean contacts etc no matter I will take another look at it tomorrow when I get a chance

at least the implication is that it has too to do with the glow plug sensor wires or circuit on the motherboard - maybe I can narrow this down by checking for short along those specific wire

Any other ideas is always appreciated

cheers & thanks

 

[John Galt]

There is a temperature sensor with a two wire plug in the thermostat housing, next to the temperature gauge sensor with one wire.
The temperature that sensor 'reads' determines the length of the glow cycle. If you disconnect the sensor plug, a correctly operating glow system controller will then power the glow plugs for the maximum time.

 

[kent5915]

thanks john

thansk John I have already played with disconnecting that sensor

I am thinking along the lines of what Jeremy said - that the issue is with the current sensor - reason being his symptons are exactly like mine - mind u my sensor is connected but I am thinking that it maybe the wiring is shorted - so will check that or there is something wrong with the motherboard on that particular circuit

Anyhow I have something to play with b4 accepting the wilson switch solution

cheers and of course any other input is always appreciated

 

[fitzmooney]

Does your charge light come on with the ignition in the run position?
If it doesn't, the timer thinks the engine has started and cuts the power to the plugs.
If so you may have a problem with your regulator or its wiring.

 

[kent5915]

hi guys

thanks - just discovered missing a wire between my glow bar current sensor and pre heat timing box
got work to do
and then I will try running a new wire later today
a special thanks to thanks for pointing me in the right direction

Not sure why there is no wire - probably another brialliant wiring job by my trucks previous owner

anyhow will let u know if this is it

Kent

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Figured it was something like that, your description was identical to what we where having. Fix that and enjoy to super glow!

 

[kent5915]

ugg

well I fixed the wire and low and behold still same thing- anyhow I think we can safely say that when u get low voltage at the bar (6-7 volt) instead of 20-24v
then it is either the current sensor or the current sensor circuit on the motherboard
in the pre heat timer

of course which component do I change on the motherboard - I tried to figure it out but realized it is way over my head

So my solution is to put a wilson switch but just run it to wire#1 on the pre heat timer and leave the pre timer attached - #1 wire on my 87 HJ60 (canadian 24 v) is a black wire with red stripe at the top corner of wiring harness - it controls one of relays - so with my wilson switch (a push button/start button) I activate the #1 wire which in turn turns on relay which then ignites my glow plug bar to 20.8 volts

it seems to be working and I will keep my eye out for a better - right now it is jimmy rigged but if I keep it I should connect the wilson switch to my ignition switch

then I will have to turn on the ignition and hold the wilson switch for a few seconds and in theory I should have both my full glow and after glow circuits

Let me know if the above makes no sense

cheers and thanks Kent

 

[kent5915]

just wondering

I have owned diesel for the last almost 20 yrs of my life and never paid a mechanic a dime except for safeties

okay always a benz - first one was a 240 D I bought for $50 with 425,000 km on it - welded up the body and it lasted me 10 yrs - it died at 850,000 - engine still good but nothing else left

Anyhow as much as I love/hate my HJ60 I will say this it is continually teaching me the hard way

turns out that all my glow plugs are NFG - yup my 1 yr old glow plugs (14 v NGK) with less than 10,000 are NFG

question - I am now assuming that my current sensor wire has been broken for a long time - probably previous owner

Is it also safe to assume that because of this it has damaged by preheat timer and/or caused my glow plugs to burn out

hmm _ I am sort of lucky cuz I bought a 10 pack of glow plugs - for some reason was a better deal than 6 - something about them coming in 10 packs - so I have 4 goods one installed today and will have to order more (assuming I keep the superglow 14.4 volts)

also bafflling - without my wilson switch connected I now had 12,6 volts at my glow bar with ignition on - used to have 6-7 volts - I am assuming that if the glow plugs are bad it may alter ones reading

I may have yo look at how mercedes does it because in all my yrs of ownership only once did I change the glow plugs

cheers and have a great day and thanks again for the help

 

[Donkeybruiser]

I had the same problem, mine turned out to be the voltage regulator on the alternator. I checked everything in the glow system, couldn't figure it out so wired in a wilson switch. About a month later the voltage regulator died completely. I swapped it and the glow system started working properly again.

 

[kent5915]

thanks john

so I guess I need to cjheck my voltage reulator

 

[Gillinski]

I had the same problem, mine turned out to be the voltage regulator on the alternator. I checked everything in the glow system, couldn't figure it out so wired in a wilson switch. About a month later the voltage regulator died completely. I swapped it and the glow system started working properly again.

Hi i have the same problem, checked the entire glow system.
So, one dummy question: is the voltage regulator the little rectangular box fixed on firewall?

kent5915, did you check if your voltage regulator was the culprit?

Thanks
Gilles

 

[akifjanjua]

I have owned diesel for the last almost 20 yrs of my life and never paid a mechanic a dime except for safeties

okay always a benz - first one was a 240 D I bought for $50 with 425,000 km on it - welded up the body and it lasted me 10 yrs - it died at 850,000 - engine still good but nothing else left

Anyhow as much as I love/hate my HJ60 I will say this it is continually teaching me the hard way

turns out that all my glow plugs are NFG - yup my 1 yr old glow plugs (14 v NGK) with less than 10,000 are NFG

question - I am now assuming that my current sensor wire has been broken for a long time - probably previous owner

Is it also safe to assume that because of this it has damaged by preheat timer and/or caused my glow plugs to burn out

hmm _ I am sort of lucky cuz I bought a 10 pack of glow plugs - for some reason was a better deal than 6 - something about them coming in 10 packs - so I have 4 goods one installed today and will have to order more (assuming I keep the superglow 14.4 volts)

also bafflling - without my wilson switch connected I now had 12,6 volts at my glow bar with ignition on - used to have 6-7 volts - I am assuming that if the glow plugs are bad it may alter ones reading

I may have yo look at how mercedes does it because in all my yrs of ownership only once did I change the glow plugs

cheers and have a great day and thanks again for the help

The current sensor wire is important.. provides feedback to timer to limit preheat time to protect the glow plugs.. without this the plugs can be damaged as the will be heated for maximum time.

 

[Gillinski]

My Superglow system seems to work fine, except the very first cold start, i here no click under the dash. From the second start on , i hear the relay clicking under the dash.

So at cold start i glow for 30 sec and it starts fine but think the superglow should make the start possible after 6 seconds.

Could that be a battery problem? or even a plug problem...? (Although, i checked and there is continuity on all four plugs.)

I could install a wilson switch but i want to make that Superglow work properly...

Thanks for helping
Gilles