HHO injection generator results (2 Viewers)

[cruiser88]

Man, this stuff just keeps throwing red flags in my mind. You can hold the tip of the torch? Wow, so they are saying it doesn't produce any heat until the hydrogen and oxygen combine and burn PAST the tip? That's frigging amazing And holy crap, the flame isn't as bright as a (oxy-acet?) torch! Are you telling me that there are fuels that burn with little production of visible light? A car that runs on water? BULL****, breaking and reforming the same bonds will not net energy. Can you design a car to run on hydrogen and oxygen, sure (e.g. fuel cells), can you design a car that will produce H2 and O2 from water (consuming energy) and then run off that H2 and O2 with enough excess energy to overcome the demands of the electrolysis? Absolutely not.

I never seen the car side of it but i did see this puppy(torch) work in action even used it....no way it would cut inch thick steel but it does cut like a sob on most things


I did did not have the balls to grab the tip

 

[RockDoc]

It isn't my intention to flame those interest in seeing if adding "oxyhydrogen" to the combustion process increases the efficiency of the gasoline burn, but to call BS on the idea that you can run an engine on a closed energy loop, or that the "brown gas" adds any energy to the equation once you factor in its production.

If you are getting improved milage as a result of the system, I am interested in why, and I have yet to see anything other than invalid salesmanship.

Okay, I should have kept reading in the Wiki page:

As a fuel supplement
Oxyhydrogen gas is effective at improving emissions and efficiency in internal combustion engines when used as a fuel supplement. See Hydrogen fuel enhancement; hydrogen affects the burn rate of fuels and lean combustion capabilities of internal combustion engines.[11][12][13] Fuel Enhancement systems are designed "to feed the hydrogen and oxygen gases directly to an internal combustion engine without intermediate storage".[14]
For diesel applications, it is claimed that "When the hydrogen enriched air is compressed, the diesel fuel is introduced with a resulting improvement in fuel efficiency and maximized combustion of the fuel".[15] Fuel enhancement has the potential to substantially reduce pollution emissions of internal combustion engines; research in 2004 concluded that "HC-emissions as well as NOx-emissions could be reduced to near zero".[16] A 50% reduction in gasoline consumption, at idle, was reported by numerically analyzing "the effect of hydrogen enriched gasoline on the performance, emissions and fuel consumption of a small spark-ignition engine".[17] Hydrogen "addition can guarantee a regular running", of the engine "with many advantages in terms of emissions levels and fuel consumption reduction".[16] Hydrogen fuel enhancement can be optimized by implementing established lean burn concepts, and at minimum to achieve an actual increase in gas mileage the air/fuel ratio needs appropriate modification.[12][11][16][18] "Increases in engine efficiency are more dominant than the energy loss incurred in generating hydrogen",[12] which is supported by computational analysis that "has marked the possibility of operating with high air overabundance (lean or ultra-lean mixtures) without a performance decrease, but with great advantages on pollution emissions and fuel consumption".[17]



More info here: Hydrogen fuel enhancement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So it seems to work by allowing you to lean out the mixture.... what does this mean for maximum power production? (at WOT when you are at the limits of air flow into the combustion chamber) If you are cutting down the fuel per unit of air, it stands to reason that you are also cutting down the power produced at WOT, unless the increase in burn efficiency outruns the increase in AFR.
What potential for damage is introduced if you tune your engine to run with the hydrogen, and for whatever reason, the hydrogen supply is cut? Will such a piggy-back system work safely without being part of unified engine management system? Can hydrogen production keep pace with demand when you are working the engine hard? Can you justify playing around with this without the research money to bankroll a few blown engines in the process? I can see this having potential when tied to a system built in at the factory that varies AFR and timing to adjust for load and hydrogen feed.

What about hydrogen embrittlement?
Blah, blah, blah.

 

[sogafarm]

Hey rocdoc, did you get this worked up when they invented the microwave too?

 

[RockDoc]

Ha, I've just got a mind that won't let things go until I understand them. And the idea of HHO injection has come up several times in the last year here. Since you've actually gone through with it, and seem to be finding a benefit in it, I decided to finally look into it rather than label everyone a kook.

And no, I understand how a microwave works.

 

[sogafarm]

no worries, I'm kind of like that too. you should have seen my buddys' faces when I explained to them what I was doing. then when they saw it in action they understood how it works. It's just another way to ween ourselves off of oil, even just a bit.

 

[RockDoc]

Well, this thread has brought me far enough to understand that there is merit in the idea of Hydrogen injection, now I am just curious why it hasn't been adopted along with hybrid technology, the resurgence of diesel, electric cars, etc. I wonder if there are reliability/engine longevity issues. If it really is as easy as putting in a larger alternator and an electrolyte tank......

If you think I'm worked up, poke your head in the 80 series forum and suggest using an oil weight that doesn't match the spec suggested on the filler cap! Blood will flow.

 

[cruiser88]

Well, this thread has brought me far enough to understand that there is merit in the idea of Hydrogen injection, now I am just curious why it hasn't been adopted along with hybrid technology, the resurgence of diesel, electric cars, etc. I wonder if there are reliability/engine longevity issues. If it really is as easy as putting in a larger alternator and an electrolyte tank......

If you think I'm worked up, poke your head in the 80 series forum and suggest using an oil weight that doesn't match the spec suggested on the filler cap! Blood will flow.

I spoke of a reman part in there once and i got a beatdown.

Once i find out the cost i might try this system in the fall along with a few other mods

 

[sogafarm]

Well if Corbet puts a system in one of the sweet fj80's on his lot then we'll have to contend with the 80's forum and see what happens.

 

[sogafarm]

cost for my unit was $500 with tax, extra pressurized pump, and shipping.
j.

 

[cruiser88]

cost for my unit was $500 with tax, extra pressurized pump, and shipping.
j.

Thank you....which dealer did you use?

 

[Pard o' Hiace]

Maybe I should try this out on my 93 Sentra - the engine is in good shape but the rest of the car is useable but not that saleable. Then if it works and does not screw anything up, I could put it on something less efficient like my Hiace. Wish I had something both semi disposable and inefficient.

What kind of instructions if any do they give for changing the injection timing / volume? For those of us who aren't up to doing that level of adjustment ourselves, that adjustment would be an added cost to go through before seeing if this thing works well enough to buy it.

The feedback I've seen online about similar kits is that they do not do much. And/or that the guys running the various companies are schysters or incompetent, even if the principle behind the technology could work. The one exception is the Canadian hydrogen Company, which makes these for Semis, charges $4k for them, guarantees 10% extra efficiency and has a patent on their hydrolysis converter. they make a smaller unit for $1.5K. They have been featured in Wired magazine, and lease their units out to fleets all over NA. Very solid feedback. No bad feedback online about the company you went to, Powderhound.

I would rather pay $1.5K for something that works than gamble $500 on something which might work. I do like that notion of folks chipping in to test this on a good engine. I'd be willing to risk my Sentra as the test bed, and put in my share, and then either buy everyone who contributed out if it works well, or pass it on to someone else who put in to try - maybe someone with a diesel. I'm in for up to $100, if others will match. I guess the other options are we sit and wait for someone else to take the risk. . .

Suppose that does beg the question of what happens if no one gets good results . . .

Cheers,
Pard

 

[cruiser88]

I clearly see how it works for the most part but my only concern is the EXTRA fuel your motor is getting. Yes I need to finish reading up on their site. But they say the fuel is on demand well if your motor is already getting enough fuel then how does the kit know to send fuel and how much. I understand it also produces oxygen so i assume this would assist in burning up the extra fuel the kit produces .

The savings comes from the kit producing cheap almost free gas(hydrogen) and it produces oxygen but regulation is my only concern.

 

[RockDoc]

Well if Corbet puts a system in one of the sweet fj80's on his lot then we'll have to contend with the 80's forum and see what happens.

I would definitely subscribe to that thread!

Maybe I should try this out on my 93 Sentra - ...

I would rather pay $1.5K for something that works than gamble $500 on something which might work. I do like that notion of folks chipping in to test this on a good engine. I'd be willing to risk my Sentra as the test bed, and put in my share, and then either buy everyone who contributed out if it works well, or pass it on to someone else who put in to try - maybe someone with a diesel. I'm in for up to $100, if others will match. I guess the other options are we sit and wait for someone else to take the risk. . .

Suppose that does beg the question of what happens if no one gets good results . . .

Cheers,
Pard

I would be up for kicking in some coin (say $20) to see someone test one of these independently on an engine that is in good tune, detail what is involved in the install and give feedback on it. If Crazy8s goes down that road, I would throw my money his way, as he is a well know "contributor" here, and has pretty much the same engine under the hood as me. On the other hand, Pard 'o Hiace is in my neighborhood.....

 

[sogafarm]

the set up I have is partially regulated by the vacuum coming from the engine. the higher rpm's the more vacuum is pulling more hho out of the cell. It can only produce hho as fast as the hho can be pulled from the unit using vacuum from the engine. The pump that is inline before the tube going into the riser plate on the carb puts a draw on the cell and then pressurizes it when needed mainly at idle when the engine vacuum is at its lowest.

And yes, I don't expect people to take what I say about my experience with hho as fact. There is enough info on it on the net if you look hard enough past the people trying to sell fly by night diy kits., I strongly urge others to try it on their rides and see for themselves. A trucker friend of mine introduced the idea to me, since truckers on the east coast have been using these units for a few years. And feel free to pay alot more for essentially the same system as I have. Make sure you compare the amps used and the liter per minute output. if they don't give you those numbers then be sceptical. And also what electrolyte they are using. Certain additives produce chlorine gas in the electrolysis stage. I use distilled vinegar as it is safe and biodegradeable as well as can be found in any food store.

 

[sogafarm]

My "Other" Cruiser

This puppy gets a bit better mpg than the toyota, it's a 600 watt 36 volt speed machine.

 

[cruiser88]

the set up I have is partially regulated by the vacuum coming from the engine. the higher rpm's the more vacuum is pulling more hho out of the cell. It can only produce hho as fast as the hho can be pulled from the unit using vacuum from the engine. The pump that is inline before the tube going into the riser plate on the carb puts a draw on the cell and then pressurizes it when needed mainly at idle when the engine vacuum is at its lowest.

makes sense

 

[Pard o' Hiace]

If the test-bed notion will fly better with someone who is a known contributor, then I say let's go that way, and I would still be in for $100, if I knew that I would get at least $50 back for every 10% increase in fuel efficiency he gets, up to say $80. If we set it up so that the guy who does this gets something for his time as everyone's guineau pig whether this works or not, that would be more than fair.

Or we could all just throw some money at powderhound to get his engine tuned up and see what happens when he turns off the hydrogen.

 

[calphi27]

Can we see some pics of your setup?

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I wander if they were this sceptical about N.O.S?

 

[cruiser88]

I wander if they were this sceptical about N.O.S?

You never told me what dealer you used .