bloc
SILVER Star
Hello all,
You may have noticed some discussion on the rear of 2020 HE 200s seeming a bit higher than their base siblings. At first people assumed this was due to the removal of the third row and necessary hardware (3 seatbelts, folded seat anchors, etc), but @Eric Sarjeant eventually confirmed with side-by-side measurements that the coils are actually different in this post: How low can you go on a BP-51 suspension?
Stock 2020 base coils measure 18" on the bench, HE 18-7/8".
Here are the part numbers:
HE SPRINGS - 48231-60E50 RH 48231-60E40 LH
Base 48231-60A20 RH 48231-60B11 LH
So it's not just the weight. Then, someone I'd like to give credit to but can't find the post, noticed in a picture that there might be extra coil wraps on those springs.
My question is whether these HE springs are just taller, or maybe higher, or even lower, spring rate.
I requested someone measure the wrap count and wire diameter and @LBridges came through with numbers from his Heritage. 16.3mm and 6 coils. Thanks.. but part of why I'm tagging you here is I need more info.
ALSO good catch on noticing that the HE coils are used overseas on 200s with the aux fuel tank. I know people might assume this also makes them heavier duty, but we haven't established whether maybe aux tank trucks don't have a third row, and technically an aux tank would be lighter than a third row full of passengers.
I got under my 2013 and took some measurements.. my stock coils are 17.5mm, and depending on how you count them I have 4.25 wraps "free". That's a key distinction.. the only part of a coil spring wrap that counts is one that isn't supported by either another coil hitting it, or the spring perch.
That got me thinking even if we get the wire and coil specs, we need height numbers, and conditions when we measure that. I'm not sure my 2013 with likely sagged coils is a good benchmark for "base" model.. so the following is what we need from a new stock unloaded 2020 base (preferably minus the third row), and a 2020 HE
-Wire diameter
-Number of unsupported coil wraps.. count down from the last place the top open coil is supported. To the nearest .25 is good enough.
-Average of left and right distance from the axle tube to the bump stop on the frame. I'll attach a picture. We need to average this to account for potential KDSS lean. I believe this to be the best spot to measure ride height.. as going to the fender lip is difficult to nail down due to the shape.
With these we should be able to determine whether the HE coil is actually higher rate or just longer.
Thanks for any help people
Take your axle tube to bump stop measurement as seen on the right of this photo:
These pictures are up the spring, first showing the top seat and last point of contact at about 1oclock. The second is the whole spring, showing 4.25 wraps (roughly) counting down from that last point.
You may have noticed some discussion on the rear of 2020 HE 200s seeming a bit higher than their base siblings. At first people assumed this was due to the removal of the third row and necessary hardware (3 seatbelts, folded seat anchors, etc), but @Eric Sarjeant eventually confirmed with side-by-side measurements that the coils are actually different in this post: How low can you go on a BP-51 suspension?
Stock 2020 base coils measure 18" on the bench, HE 18-7/8".
Here are the part numbers:
HE SPRINGS - 48231-60E50 RH 48231-60E40 LH
Base 48231-60A20 RH 48231-60B11 LH
So it's not just the weight. Then, someone I'd like to give credit to but can't find the post, noticed in a picture that there might be extra coil wraps on those springs.
My question is whether these HE springs are just taller, or maybe higher, or even lower, spring rate.
I requested someone measure the wrap count and wire diameter and @LBridges came through with numbers from his Heritage. 16.3mm and 6 coils. Thanks.. but part of why I'm tagging you here is I need more info.
ALSO good catch on noticing that the HE coils are used overseas on 200s with the aux fuel tank. I know people might assume this also makes them heavier duty, but we haven't established whether maybe aux tank trucks don't have a third row, and technically an aux tank would be lighter than a third row full of passengers.
I got under my 2013 and took some measurements.. my stock coils are 17.5mm, and depending on how you count them I have 4.25 wraps "free". That's a key distinction.. the only part of a coil spring wrap that counts is one that isn't supported by either another coil hitting it, or the spring perch.
That got me thinking even if we get the wire and coil specs, we need height numbers, and conditions when we measure that. I'm not sure my 2013 with likely sagged coils is a good benchmark for "base" model.. so the following is what we need from a new stock unloaded 2020 base (preferably minus the third row), and a 2020 HE
-Wire diameter
-Number of unsupported coil wraps.. count down from the last place the top open coil is supported. To the nearest .25 is good enough.
-Average of left and right distance from the axle tube to the bump stop on the frame. I'll attach a picture. We need to average this to account for potential KDSS lean. I believe this to be the best spot to measure ride height.. as going to the fender lip is difficult to nail down due to the shape.
With these we should be able to determine whether the HE coil is actually higher rate or just longer.
Thanks for any help people
Take your axle tube to bump stop measurement as seen on the right of this photo:
These pictures are up the spring, first showing the top seat and last point of contact at about 1oclock. The second is the whole spring, showing 4.25 wraps (roughly) counting down from that last point.
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