HELP: stumped on no-start issue FJ40

[motomodz]

(sorry...kind of long!)......
Let me start by saying that I know very little about mechanical so I am hoping someone can offer up suggestions on what went wrong today!?

I have had my 1975 FJ40 (that has a 1F from a 70-71 model swapped in) for about 10 months. Since I bought it, I have only used it as a low speed / short distance / part-time vehicle.....meaning 15-20 minute drives at 40-50 mph, 2-3 times a week at most.

Today, I had too drive on the highway for about 10 miles at 55 mph then i took my exit.....so far, so good. Then, I was on a small incline going about 40 mph and the truck started to hesitate a couple times and even let out a very minor backfire. I realized that the choke was still pulled out a little so I pushed it in all the way.

After I crested the hill I came too a traffic light on a small decline. I pulled away from the light and got up too about 20 mph.....then the engine died. I tried to refire it with no luck. I pulled it into 2nd and let out the clutch to try to get it too re-start but, no luck. I pulled off to the side of the road.

So, I know enough to know that you need air, fuel and spark to run. I pulled the air cleaner assmebly and could smell that it was getting fuel. A kind stranger stops to help, turns out he has built engines and asks if he can help. He starts checking for spark and finds none. after checking a few things, he feels certain that the coil has gone bad.

It has an aftermarket accel coil with what looks like an original shielded part mounted too the top of the coil....(not sure exactly what this is) He determines that the coil is not sending power too the distributor. we go find the exact Accel coil and swap it in, no luck.

So, basically. It is getting fuel. Battery seems strong. starter is turning over quickly. Alternator is new-ish looking. New coil out of the box possibly no good??>>>......unlikely in my opinion but, I suppose stranger things have happened. I should mention that the distributor has had the points swapped out and has a small
red electonic(?) ignition under the distributor cap......but if power is not being sent from the coil too the distributor, then that would not be the problem, right!?

Anyway, sorry for the long message, just trying too paint the picture of what led up too the no-start. If anyone has any ideas to what the problem might be, I'd appreciate it! thanks in advance!

 

[fj hunter]

one trick ...

is to take a screw driver with a very good PLASTIC handle and pull a plug wire and carefully insert the end of the correct size driver into the plug wire and then ground the shaft of the driver and look for spark.

what i have done is lay it some where so that is can be viewed while cranking the engine.

does not work real great on a sunny day.

if the guy has worked on engines and he observed no spark, then maybe your IGN circuit has a fuse and it is blown....maybe???

either way, the worst case is you end up with a spare coil.

do you have a volt meter that measures ohms?

the coil has two loops, the primary and the secondary. the primary should be something like 1 or 2 ohms and the secondary should have about 10K ohms. neither coil loop should have a open circuit or infinite ohms.

the above figure has primary being measured in figure 1 and the secondary in figure 2.

that should get you on the way, best to ya.

 

[FJ40Jim]

We need a pic of the ignition distributor and the coil/ignitor assembly.

75 should have points dissy w/ ignitor box and resistor mounted atop coil.

 

[craftymb]

Gday,

Pull the cap off the distributor and see if the rotor is actually turning . The fast engine turnover may actually indicate that all the head gear isnt turning over at all and that there could be a problem with the timing gears/ chain (gears i would suspect I havent touched one of these engines before), or camshaft. I have seen this before on an old honda, the old japanesse engineers were great and when the belt actually broke no valve bashing happened and the engine turned over noticebly quicker.

I would also check the cap while you have it off for cracks and make sure the carbon brush in the centre is still there and has a clean face .If the rotor arm isnt turning but all the valves are operating it could also be the drive gear on the distributor.

Make sure you check all the simple things first ie wires, connections and earths , contact breaker points (if these are burnt or pitted bad it could be the capacitor).

anyway hope you get it sorted nothing pains you more than when your rigg is out of commission.

good luck and keep us posted.

 

[motomodz]

charging camera for pics

Thanks for the responses. I did not have time too look into it today, hope to do so tomorrow. I am charging the camera and will get some pics.

I assumed it should have points (again, engine is a 1F out of a 70/71 era FJ40).....so, I assume the little red electronic ignitor inside the distributor is not stock......also, the accel coil is obviously not stock but it does appear too have the original resistor mounted atop the coil.

I will keep everyone posted tomorrow and hopefully it is something minor!?.....Lee

 

[motomodz]

still no start but.....

......had a chance too take some pics and check out a few things today. The coils primary and secondary ohms readings check out. The rotor is turning with the cap off. Power does not appear too be getting from the new coil too the distributor.

It looks like maybe the Pertronix Ignitor 2 may be the problem. The plastic / rubber exterior of the magnet that sits in the middle of the distributor appears too have worn down considerably and no longer appears too be in the correct alignment with the little red Ignitor 2 unit that mounts inside the distributor.

Now I just found another thread here tonight where someone had very similar issues and it sounds like there is supposed too be a .030 gap between the magnet and the red unit however, I did not notice any adjustability in that area today, will have too check again in the daylight tomorrow.

If it is the pertronix unit that has failed, any suggestions as too where i can get one quickly....jegs said 2 weeks (argh!)

I've attached a couple pics. Again, the rig is a 1975 but the 1F is out of a 1970 / 1971 FJ40. Let me know if anyone has any other thoughts....I'd like to be sure if it is the pertronix unit, I would rather not throw $100 at the issue without resolving the problem.....thanks!

 

[FJ40Jim]

A picture is worth... a whole bunch.

The pictured dissy is 1975 2F USA vac retard dissy.

The ignitor is for 74-earlier F distributor.

The F and 2F dissys are completely different. The F ignitor will not fit that dissy.
Well, it will not fit right and work.

The original points can be reinstalled in the 75 vac retard dissy to get the engine running.
Or maybe up/downgrade to the inferior F dissy, but with vac advance, possibly with a Pertronix.
Or get a Pertronix that fits the 75-77 dissy from Mark's Offroad, and run it as mechanical advance only (should be doing that now).
Or upgrade to a 78-newer vac advance electronic ignition system.

 

[motomodz]

A picture is worth... a whole bunch.

The pictured dissy is 1975 2F USA vac retard dissy.

The ignitor is for 74-earlier F distributor.

The F and 2F dissys are completely different. The F ignitor will not fit that dissy.
Well, it will not fit right and work.

The original points can be reinstalled in the 75 vac retard dissy to get the engine running.
Or maybe up/downgrade to the inferior F dissy, but with vac advance, possibly with a Pertronix.
Or get a Pertronix that fits the 75-77 dissy from Mark's Offroad, and run it as mechanical advance only (should be doing that now).
Or upgrade to a 78-newer vac advance electronic ignition system.

Jim, the issue I have is that the rig has had this configuration at least since I purchased it last August (and probably for some time before that) and the truck was running fine up until the other day.

Does it seem likely that it would run ok with that setup for at least a year or more before finally deciding too stop working?

I just want to be sure before I spend $100+ on a new Pertronix setup......do you think a local parts store will have the points (like Pep boys, etc.) or do I need too purchase them from one of the Yota specific vendors?

 

[FJ40Jim]

The F Pertronix will operate for a while in the 2F dissy before the parts are chewed up badly enough to fail.

Local parts store should still be able to get points for 1975 2F.

If the original ignitor is missing from atop the coil, a condensor will also be necessary. There is an illustration in the Haynes FJ40 book showing how to bypass the ignitor on 75-77 trucks.

 

[motomodz]

Jim, I called Marks offroad today and he is sending me the correct Pertronix setup for the 75-77 dizzy. Hopefully that will solve my no-start problem!

I also noticed that my throttle cable popped off of my carb. I can see how the cable is routed but, if anyone has a photo that shows how the end is supposed to be attached, I'd appreciate it! thanks Jim and everyone elses for their responses. I hope to be up and running again in a couple days!

 

[65swb45]

Oh! That was YOU!

It's a good thing you ordered the coil. The Accel coil you have pictured is NOT the right ohms resistance for that unit, which is what I suggested MIGHT be the case when you called.

As explained to me by the Pertronix rep, all Pertronix II units are designed to use a 'special' 0.6 'lo ohms coil; standard coils are 1.5 ohm.

Best

Mark A.

 

[motomodz]

she's running now!!

THANK YOU!!!......a big thanks too Jim for helping diagnose the problem and Mark and Mark's Offroad for supplying the parts needed too get the old girl purring again! It runs like a champ!

The IH8MUD forum guys come through again.....thanks for helping the less mechanically inclined among us guys, I truly appreciate it!!!