Anybody familiar with these and have an opinion? My head is currently at the machine shop getting rebuilt. It has already been milled for compression. The Felpro Headsaver is .020".
Head Gasket Shim
- Thread starter pappy
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- Thread starter
- #2
Well, since nobody seems to have experience, or an opinion, I guess I get to be the Guinea pig. I talked with the machine shop yesterday, and before I could even ask, he was suggesting the Felpro Headsaver, which is what I looked at. Numbers from the machine shop:
Deck height:
So, my head is already milled .010" below spec. Headsaver will add .020" so I will be half way between new and minimum when I'm done.
The machine shop also said the valves had been ground 'razor sharp' and need to be replaced. I'm guessing they were ground to clearance the pistons, but don't know for sure.
Deck height:
- Factory new: 3.790"
- Minimum spec: 3.780"
- Now: 3.770"
- After milling: 3.765"
So, my head is already milled .010" below spec. Headsaver will add .020" so I will be half way between new and minimum when I'm done.
The machine shop also said the valves had been ground 'razor sharp' and need to be replaced. I'm guessing they were ground to clearance the pistons, but don't know for sure.
I've never heard of this before. Any time we have ever dealt with a head that was out of spec it was replaced. How does this work? Is it just like a thicker gasket?
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- #4
Copper shim between block and gasket.
If you have to shim it that much, then just go with a cometic MLS gasket. Then you can get the exact size you need in a single gasket. I would think a spacer is adding another mismatched metal (cooper) to the aluminum and steel. The expansion rates would be all over the place with a spacer in there, thus allowing a greater chance for the HG to pop again.
However, I have no experience with a spacer and could be totally off on my theory, but since there is another option out there by way of the MLS gasket...why risk it?
However, I have no experience with a spacer and could be totally off on my theory, but since there is another option out there by way of the MLS gasket...why risk it?
I've used one before. Never had an issue with the felpro before, but did go through two timing chains in less than a year with that engine. Not sure if that correlates. Never overheated. Did retorq the head bolts the first oil change per machinists recommendation.
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- #7
The MLS gasket was suggested. But, I was told to stay away from the brand. I trust my machine shop. If he says the Headsaver will work then I'm willing to try.
I'm going through this for the second time. First time the timing chain wore through its cover, so I pulled the head and had a machine shop look at it. They did mill it off a bit, and then suggested I try a copper shim with a normal gasket. I wrecked the shim during installation, so I went back and got a Felpro oversized (thicker) gasket. Truck ran fine and went through aircare no problem. Timing chain broke about 30000kms later. It was in Revelstoke, in the winter, so I never saw that engine again. Different year, different block, same timing chain problem. Looks like I will go with a thicker head gasket again. Next time it will be a new head entirely. Anybody else have any feedback on the shims/gaskets thing?
I don't know everyone's opinion of LC, but I've been having what appears to be HG issues on my RE build, and tech at LC said they mill .200 off they're heads with no issues and did not recommend a spacer. (He did try to sell a head though) I thought that was strange because I've heard there is a small window when you mill the head.
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- #10
I would have to double check, but I seem to recall the machine shop that did my head said .020" (20 thousandths, not 200 thousandths as you have it written) was max and I was at that, or just over, before they did their work. The Head Saver is .020", and my head is now at .025", so I'm just .005" under as far as the bits are concerned.
Yes 200 is what LC said they shave no problem. I thought that was WAY too much. I'm not sure the piston would even clear the valves at that point. I agree with you though pappy, keep it to spec as much as possible. My head is at 3.754 after having around .015 shaved which it had been done in the past by the previous owner (that's why I called LC because no one would respond to me on here on what I should do or what my problem might be) I thought I might be having HG issues with the bolts bottoming out or something. I have alot of coolant in my intake manifold. I already replaced the HG and same problem.... You got any ideas pap?
200 thou is nearly a quarter inch. That won't work and if a guy is insisting that, I would go somewhere else as he has no clue
Coolant in your intake? What engine? Fuel injected engines have a coolant passage at the throttle body. Maybe a crack there?
Thanks for the reply! I was loosing hope.
It's the 22re, a 92 4WD. Been giving me issues big time fix one thing smile for a bit and back at the drawing board again.
I thought it was HG because I noticed some 'butter' under the oil fill cap and a slight loss of coolant. As time went by I realized it was not condensation. Fresh rebuild, 2500 miles on engine, coolant contaminated intake. I visually inspected the sealing surfaces of both the head and intake manifold, plus plugged and applied air to the coolant passage, and everything seemed to check out. I would hate to take it to a shop and have work done, especially if its a head problem which I'm leaning towards.
I would pressure check the cooling system. You can borrow the tool from oreilly or autozone. You might loosen the throttle body from the intake but keep the coolant lines hooked up and pressurize the cooling system.
That's a good idea, thanks ill keep this updated. Would toyota red cause an issue? This problem started the same time I did a coolant flush
