Head Gasket Before Supercharger?

[Rusty]

I've just bought the TRD supercharger for my '97 LX450, I decided that I wanted one after figuring that I might want to tow a lightweight travel trailer one day in addition to hauling around the additional weight that mods bring (bumpers etc.).

I'm seeking the advice of those who have added the TRD S/C, and did not change the head gasket before installing the S/C. I know that some consider the head gasket to be a PM even when the engine is left naturally aspirated, though most would not.

Obviously the reason for changing out the head gasket is so that the additional charge doesn't cause it to fail. This makes sense if on the whole it can be shown that not changing the head gasket after a S/C install definitively results in an increased likelihood of gasket failure shortly thereafter.

I'm already prepared to take on other PM work to make sure that the cooling system is up to the task etc., such as changing hoses, water pump etc. but the head gasket is another kettle of fish. My 90K mile motor runs great and has never thrown a CEL, so in a sense I'm not prepared to fix what "ain't broke" so to speak.

Have any of you out there who have installed the S/C and not done the head gasket at that time later on down the road ended up with a blown head gasket?

I think that most people, like C-Dan for instance, have managed to put quite a few miles on a S/C motor with the original head gasket so that's an indicator that running the original head gasket with the S/C isn't likely to be any more risky than running a naturally aspirated engine on the original head gasket.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[blarsen]

i have 17k on my rig with the supercharger installed and the stock head gasket (128K total) with no problems at all... good luck.. enjoy
BL

 

[inkpot]

Howdy! It's a lot easier to do the head gasket before you add the S/C than after. My (new to me) 80 had both done to it before I got it, and that was at less than 90,000 miles. HTH John

 

[SunTzuMD]

Rusty - I'm in the same boat as you. 150K on original head gasket with a TRD supercharger staring at me from inside the box.

I'm interested to hear others thoughts as well.

 

[maniacv]

I had 140k on the original headgasket when I put my S/C on. It now has 155k.

 

[IdahoDoug]

In the whole scheme of things, the HG is cheap and while the head's off you get a valve job and the injectors can be cleaned and tuned. And the carbon deposits come off the pistons and head and valves. So it seems like it would be a wise idea to replace it so later when you're horsing around and whaling on what is a bulletproof vehicle you won't be worrying in the back of your head about a little extra heat and that proven weak designed head gasket. Like blasting up a hot sand dune, or pulling a trailer over a mountain pass - you know, the stuff you're headed for.

 

[inkpot]

I figure that you'll never be this close to the head gasket again, unless ya blow it, and then it's gonna be moot!?!?John

 

[jfz80]

In the whole scheme of things, the HG is cheap and while the head's off you get a valve job and the injectors can be cleaned and tuned. And the carbon deposits come off the pistons and head and valves. So it seems like it would be a wise idea to replace it so later when you're horsing around and whaling on what is a bulletproof vehicle you won't be worrying in the back of your head about a little extra heat and that proven weak designed head gasket. Like blasting up a hot sand dune, or pulling a trailer over a mountain pass - you know, the stuff you're headed for.

Sorry, I dont meet your described crriteria but...........

agreed. So much closer and simpler to do now.
I understand the desire not to. My kazuma was added at 178k miles and you could still see cross hatching on the cylinder walls. A new HG was used just because and now the unit has 60k miles on it without issues. Plus the design of the HG was upgraded and I am not sure if that upgraded design ever made it into production vehicles. I had thought not.

 

[thumper]

I just had my HG done a few months ago. I had 140k on the motor and it was running fine. I had Robbie do my HG and I decide to get a SC as well, since he was there. When Robbie pulled the head, he found that the #6 was slightly deformed. I believe that my HG was the original one. I for one, would rather have it replaced at my choice than have it let go on a trail or the top of a hill. I would have to have had the SC go on and then have to go back in and take everything off to replace a HG.

Just my .02


Jon

 

[Rusty]

I don't disagree with those who say that it's worth while changing the head gasket; it does appear that failures are common enough. Statistically speaking it's hard to get a grasp of the likelihood of it happening though because even the polls conducted here on 'Mud can't be considered accurate.

This thread hasn't garnered that much in the way of replies, probably because there aren't that many supercharged cruisers out there compared to naturally aspirated ones and because of that it's hard to get a read on whether or not the charger really causes an increased risk of head gasket failure.

I would think that most 1FZ-FE owners don't change out the head gasket as a pm, for most people that's a job they'd probably rather not pay for or tackle on their own. After sleeping on it I think that I'm going to. Here are my reasons:

1) I intend on driving my Cruiser on longer expedition runs, getting stuck in Northern B.C. or the Baja Peninsula with a dead motor is not my idea of a good time. My thoughts may be different if it were my daily driver or if I were going to wheel it closer to home where I could call up a tow truck.

2) I feel comfortable doing the work as an industrial mechanic it's well within my scope of abilities. I have the FSM, a shop, and I'll buying Idaho Doug's Head Gasket DVD, if it's still available (IMHO for $25 it's worth watching someone else do the job first if you haven't done it yourself yet).

3) Because my Cruiser isn't a daily driver, it actually gets parked in the shop for the winter, I can be without it for a while while I do the work.

4) I can take care of the other weak link, the PHH, among other things while I'm at it much more easily and I'll install the super charger and components as I do the rebuild.

My rationale probably doesn't ring true for others, those who use their Cruiser as a daily driver and/or wheel close to home with friends may not do the head gasket as a super charger pm. Also those that don't have a shop or garage to do the work in would most likely have to have the work done somewhere else at greater expense. In those cases it might be worth the risk running on the old head gasket.

The only down side risk that everyone faces in not changing it of course is that a serious enough head gasket failure could cause catastrophic engine damage.

I figure that you'll never be this close to the head gasket again, unless ya blow it, and then it's gonna be moot!?!?John

I haven't read the super charger install instructions with any real scrutiny yet, I've just glanced at them, but there is no requirement to go into the head to install the super charger, so really you're not actually that close to the head gasket. If the head gasket were to fail sometime after the super charger was installed then the only additional work would be removing the super charger from the motor, which doesn't seem like that much more work to me. That's why I was questioning the worthiness of removing the head in the first place.

In the whole scheme of things, the HG is cheap and while the head's off you get a valve job and the injectors can be cleaned and tuned. And the carbon deposits come off the pistons and head and valves. So it seems like it would be a wise idea to replace it so later when you're horsing around and whaling on what is a bulletproof vehicle you won't be worrying in the back of your head about a little extra heat and that proven weak designed head gasket. Like blasting up a hot sand dune, or pulling a trailer over a mountain pass - you know, the stuff you're headed for.

... I agree, I hate to be the the 10th million person to ask you, but are you still selling your DVD? I'll pm you.

I'm still interested in hearing others head gasket/super charger stories and opinions though...

 

[Rusty]

I just had my HG done a few months ago. I had 140k on the motor and it was running fine. I had Robbie do my HG and I decide to get a SC as well, since he was there. When Robbie pulled the head, he found that the #6 was slightly deformed. I believe that my HG was the original one. I for one, would rather have it replaced at my choice than have it let go on a trail or the top of a hill. I would have to have had the SC go on and then have to go back in and take everything off to replace a HG.

Just my .02


Jon

That's the kind of worthwhile .02 I was looking for!

Cheers

 

[oro-o]

4) I can take care of the other weak link, the PHH, among other things while I'm at it much more easily and I'll install the super charger and components as I do the rebuild.

Pardon an ignorant question - what's the "PHH" problem?

I've had a 100 a few years. Now I'm about to pull the trigger on an 80. Been contemplating both the headgasket issue and adding a SC (for occasional towing). So this thread is great. But I don't know what that refers to.

 

[thumper]

Happy to help.

I would also like to add that I did have the fuel injectors replaced with rebalanced/cleaned ones and the fuel filter replaced too. Robbie also put in higher weight oil in the newish blue fan clutch. Last summer I replaced all of the cooling system, radiator, water pump, thermostat, hoses, fan clutch, etc. Even with doing that, the normal running temperature (according to the scangauge) went up about 5-10 degrees. Before the SC i would run 184-186 now is 188-190s for normal non hill driving. I have seen 210s doing the Donner Summit climb going home to Nevada, this is with the SC and during the summer. I normally don't use the AC, so my temps are without using it.


Just a bit more information to digest.


Jon

 

[Grench]

When I bought my SC and all the installation parts I thought I would do the HG while I was at it. Between when the parts arrived and when I had scheduled to do the install, my wife's truck showed up with antifreeze in the oil. Her's went straight in with my HG parts. It had bad scrubbing at cyl 6 and had just started to go at 141,000 mi.

After restocking my HG parts, a couple of weeks later we tore mine down. Sure enough there was some scrubbing at cyl 6 - it was going but hadn't gone yet.

With the SC you will be running a bit higher compression - that is the point after all. Once the SC is on - it would be one more thing to take off when the HG finally does go. I like the peace of mind I get from already having done it. Frankly, if I hadn't, then I'd likely have had to tear it down again within the next 6mos to year.

IMHO YMMV

 

[thumper]

PHH = Pesky Heater Hose. Is a pain in the butt. Some people just run a long line to the top bypassing the metal tube. I did, haven't had any issues since doing that. Is something that should be done depending on the age of the vehicle and if it has not been already replaced.

Jon

Pardon an ignorant question - what's the "PHH" problem?

I've had a 100 a few years. Now I'm about to pull the trigger on an 80. Been contemplating both the headgasket issue and adding a SC (for occasional towing). So this thread is great. But I don't know what that refers to.

 

[Grench]

Pardon an ignorant question - what's the "PHH" problem?

I've had a 100 a few years. Now I'm about to pull the trigger on an 80. Been contemplating both the headgasket issue and adding a SC (for occasional towing). So this thread is great. But I don't know what that refers to.

Pesky Heater Hose. It is a 2.5" long hose located about 6" above the starter motor.

There are probably a dozen threads on it alone. It is a real pain to change with the truck in a driveway. Nearly impossible at the side of the road. With the intake off though, it is cake to do it from above.

 

[Salue]

I had my SC installed at ~160k and it's now at ~185k without doing the head gasket. After the install, I changed the plugs/wires/dist cap & rotor....While pulling the #6 plug out, I accidentally cracked the radiator top end cap (laying on it) so had to replace that and put in LT's modified fan clutch and a new thermostat while there. Haven't had any issues, and the only regret I have is not putting a new water pump while I was in there.

Cheers,
Salue