hard steering saginaw

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capt.rick

capt.rick

Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Threads
40
Messages
156
Location
cheshire CT.
Hey guys, I have a 79 forty with a saginaw steer box and a brand new upgraded pump, (more psi). I put in longfields axles and a highsteer kit.. I also run 39 pitbulls.. When Im in 2 wheel drive the steering is as easy as one finger with no binding..
when I lock the hubs and put into 4 wd, the steering get so hard I need two hands and even then I have a hard time, and thats on the dirt.. Do I need now to get the box replaced or rebuilt???
This was all happening before I changed the tires, highsteer, axles and pump, I dont want to change out the box unless its necessary. What do you think??? Thanks Rick
 
Sounds like it is bypassing internally in the box to me.
 
waiting for time said:
I presume this is when driving and when your standing still it steers as in 2 wheel drive?
Click to expand...
Just trying to do a K turn is a PIA in 4 wd. yes, while moving it is little easier, if thats what you getting at.. Also the ps pump always whined when it got hot and progressively got worse thats why I put a new ps pump in ..oh yah I installed a small ps pump cooler to help keeping it cool.
 
inkpot said:
Howdy! Do you have a locker in the front axle? John
Click to expand...

I doubt a locker is his issue. I have a Saginaw setup with a Lock Rite in my front end and my steering is effortless while wheeling. I can steer with one finger while wheeling and don't even know the locker is there. To the OP, since you already replaced the pump and are still having issues you need to focus on the box being the problem.
 
Unless you know the front diff is open you might want to get the front axle up on a set of jack stands and verify that the isn't Lincoln locked or has a malfunctioning locker.
With both wheels off the ground, in 2wd and the hubs locked spin one wheel, the opposite wheel should turn in the other direction. If they both turn the same direction your diff is locked.
 
John Smith said:
I doubt a locker is his issue. I have a Saginaw setup with a Lock Rite in my front end and my steering is effortless while wheeling. I can steer with one finger while wheeling and don't even know the locker is there. To the OP, since you already replaced the pump and are still having issues you need to focus on the box being the problem.
Click to expand...

IMHO it's still worth checking. I have the PSC pump and box and I can tell the difference with my ARB locked.

Verifying that the diff is open only takes a few minutes.
 
rusty_tlc said:
IMHO it's still worth checking. I have the PSC pump and box and I can tell the difference with my ARB locked.

Verifying that the diff is open only takes a few minutes.
Click to expand...
This was what I thought. Cheap and easy test. Not knowing Capt Rick or his rig, I figured start simple and get more complicated/expensive. I've run LockRights in both ends and I am very familiar with the characteristics of them. My Saginaw system is able to handle my Krawlers very well at 12 psi, but it is very noticeable when I have good traction like bedrock. John
 
did you take a bare measurement of your PS fluid at the reservoir ?

are you running assist piston in your steering setup ?

When I'm chained and locked in front I notice there is way more effort for my pump ..
 
rusty_tlc said:
Unless you know the front diff is open you might want to get the front axle up on a set of jack stands and verify that the isn't Lincoln locked or has a malfunctioning locker.
With both wheels off the ground, in 2wd and the hubs locked spin one wheel, the opposite wheel should turn in the other direction. If they both turn the same direction your diff is locked.
Click to expand...
did just that, and both wheels spin in the same direction... what do i have to do to fix this problem.. this is been hapening since day one after purchase,,, ughhh
 
capt.rick said:
did just that, and both wheels spin in the same direction... what do i have to do to fix this problem.. this is been hapening since day one after purchase,,, ughhh
Click to expand...
LockRights can be setup a little on the tight side, or a little on the loose side. If they are "tight", then they don't like to forgive(release) the faster rolling wheel. I know it is not covered in the install instructions, but for a front app, it is recommended to go on the loose side. This can be accomplished by reducing/removing some of the shim pack under the side gears (drivers). How much? I don't know. My front was tight enough that I considered doing this. I have run a lot of easy trails in 2wd low range so it would be easier to steer. I finally gernaded my front locker, so I moved up to the PowerTrax No Spin locker. It is almost the same as a LockRight, but it has an extra little doodad that makes it lock in and out smoother. It does seem to be better on the trail, but it is still a little stiffer steering that when in 2wd. Another thing to check is the pulley sizes. Make sure that your turning the pump fast enough. Also, I am running double belts on mine, just to make sure it doesn't slip any. Most of the double pulleys were already on the engine when I put it in. John
 
capt.rick said:
Maybe stupid question but when there is a locker installed , dont both wheels spin together? and the locker allows the outside faster wheel to spin with more revolutions to prevent wheel hop?
Click to expand...
Nope, good question. Yup, the outer wheel is "supposed to" roll faster on a turn and the power is on the inside wheel. The variable factor in this is how tight the clearances in the locker are. If they are loose, then the outer wheel will free-wheel pretty easy, but if the locker is setup pretty tight, then the outer wheel will not free-wheel quite as readily. Lots of other things can have an effect also, such as speed, traction, angle of turn, weight over the front axle, etc. When I made a turn on bedrock, it would be hard to steer, but then as soon as the locker released the outer wheel, the steering got easier and the locker stayed unlocked until I was going straight again. If I made a turn in fine, dry sand, the outer wheel would not get enough traction to force the locker to release, so the front of the rig would snowplow, trying to go straight. This was problem is increased when you have a auto locker in the rear axle also and it is trying to drive the rig straight, because you haven't actually got the rig to turn very much, so the rear locker is still engaged. It's not as bad as it sounds, but it is certainly noticable. After a little practice, you just compensate for it automatically. You can also use 2wd low range to avoid a lot of this on the easier parts of the trail. John
 
capt.rick said:
So what is the cure for this? Do I replace the locker ? and with what? I have a Detroit inthe rear and its been working great . or throw in a aussie? . Or should I tear it down and look at it myself??? Thanks again Rick
Click to expand...

When you had the front tires off the ground and did your spin test did you grab each tire and verify you're able get it to unlock and make the ratcheting sound? If not do this and report back. If the locker is not bound up the issue has to be your power steering box.
 
John Smith said:
When you had the front tires off the ground and did your spin test did you grab each tire and verify you're able get it to unlock and make the ratcheting sound? If not do this and report back. If the locker is not bound up the issue has to be your power steering box.
Click to expand...
Good point. On my LockeRights, when up on stands, both wheels would turn the same direction together, when rolled easy by hand. But, if I jerked one wheel really hard, then it would break loose, and you could hear the locker ratcheting around until it locked up again. My front always seemed a little harder to accomplish this. May of been due to being setup tighter or less use, since the rears had to work on the street, not just on the trail like the front. John
 
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