Ham radio GPS. Why should I care?

[kcjaz]

About to buy a rig mounted ham radio. Probably a FTM-400xdr. I really like the mounting location used by @Cruisin911 in Looking to install Yaesu FTM-400XDR in my 200. @Markuson asked about potential issue with the GPS in this location. I can see that being a potential issue but tell me why I would care? I know there are some HAM reasons why GPS is desirable like time synchronization and maybe the big one is APRS. APRS seems interesting and might allow tracking of my location but I will have an In Reach for that and emergency. The only really purpose for the ham in my rig is trail comms when I am out with other rigs and potentially emergency comms (like calling highway patrol or something).

So, lets say mounting the FTM-400 in this location completely blocks the GPS, do I care?

 

[Markuson]

About to buy a rig mounted ham radio. Probably a FTM-400xdr. I really like the mounting location used by @Cruisin911 in Looking to install Yaesu FTM-400XDR in my 200. @Markuson asked about potential issue with the GPS in this location. I can see that being a potential issue but tell me why I would care? I know there are some HAM reasons why GPS is desirable like time synchronization and maybe the big one is APRS. APRS seems interesting and might allow tracking of my location but I will have an In Reach for that and emergency. The only really purpose for the ham in my rig is trail comms when I am out with other rigs and potentially emergency comms (like calling highway patrol or something).

So, lets say mounting the FTM-400 in this location completely blocks the GPS, do I care?

One feature I use a lot on the FTM is a very handy altimeter page (display page) that I actually use a lot more often than HAM… Its very accurate, and also builds a continuous, visual ad it tracks climbs and descents. This function relies on GPS.

While many may think they don’t care about an altimeter…its actually very interesting on trips.

Also…if you ever choose to utilize the 400’s location tagging (with other similarly equipped HAM users), it will need GPS data.

 

[kcjaz]

One feature I use a lot on the FTM is a very handy altimeter page (display page) that I actually use a lot more often than HAM… Its very accurate, and also builds a continuous, visual ad it tracks climbs and descents. This function relies on GPS.

While many may think they don’t care about an altimeter…its actually very interesting on trips.

Also…if you ever choose to utilize the 400’s location tagging (with other similarly equipped HAM users), it will need GPS data.

Thanks. I like altitude info too and have been using OnX on my phone for trail Nav. It provides real time elevation and when done gives you a graph of elevation vs mile that you can slide the X axis on and it shows you the corresponding position on the track if you recorded it.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I like to keep things simple. Ideally, one main task per device. InReach for emergencies, flash light for night time visibility, camera for photos, compressor for tire inflation, gps for navigation, ham/vhf for vehicle to vehicle talk on the go, and a phone for... wait for it... talking to people. No, not on instagram, but actual voice conversations; and yes, those are still legal.

If a device fails, I only lose that one job that it does. I don't need an air compressor with a built in flashlight, camera, and GPS navigation. And I especially don't WANT it.

I can go on for days about "what if" scenarios, nice to haves, etc., but at the end of the day, the less crap a device has, the less likely it is to fail in part or whole, the less time I'll spend staring/swearing at it, and often the better it will be at its primary purpose. Sometimes complexity is unavoidable (ie. smartphones), but in all other cases, keep it simple, stupid.

On a somewhat parallel tangent, I'm a big advocate of privacy and not giving any big tech any more information about yourself than you have to. As such, the last thing I want is GPS in every device I own or wear. Again, some level of privacy loss is unavoidable. (Can't wait for smart condoms to report your... performance... to an app!)

 

[BlackMammoth]

Modern GPS on a chip solutions can work with very very little signal. You might find that the GPS works in that location without issue.

Manufacturers all say "Clear view of the sky" blah blah blah --- My cheap alibaba vehicle tracker was able to maintain a GPS signal when it was in my laptop bag, in the trunk of a car.

 

[Markuson]

Thanks. I like altitude info too and have been using OnX on my phone for trail Nav. It provides real time elevation and when done gives you a graph of elevation vs mile that you can slide the X axis on and it shows you the corresponding position on the track if you recorded it.

I sometimes use apps that way as well, and they do often work. Only bummer is that many apps rely on cellular data , or pre-saved maps to fully function. What I like about the 400 is its always active and requires no data connection, or an active, on-screen app.

 

[LegendaryKing]

If you're traveling in groups using the GPS with APRS helps everyone in your group to stay together. It's helpful not only off road where it can get dusty and you can easily lose visual but on road when traffic starts to separate you from the group.

 

[goldwater58]

The biggest advantage of GPS/APRS in my opinion is that you can use it to text/send SMS, even with zero cell signal. That's a pretty powerful ability when you're in the middle of nowhere.

 

[kcjaz]

The biggest advantage of GPS/APRS in my opinion is that you can use it to text/send SMS, even with zero cell signal. That's a pretty powerful ability when you're in the middle of nowhere.

Really? Didn't know that. That is what my InReach was going to be for but that requires a subscription service with Garmin plus another $500 device. So you can use this radio to txt non-HAM users on there cell phones without a subscription of some kind? That's motivation to get off my a$$ and take the test.

 

[goldwater58]

Really? Didn't know that. That is what my InReach was going to be for but that requires a subscription service with Garmin plus another $500 device. So you can use this radio to txt non-HAM users on there cell phones without a subscription of some kind? That's motivation to get off my a$$ and take the test.

Yeah, it's pretty neat, although it may not be as "clean" or straightforward as using an InReach. There's lots of guides/YT videos out there that break it down. Here's a starting point:

User Guide – APRS/SMS Gateway

smsgte.org

 

[kcjaz]

Yeah, it's pretty neat, although it may not be as "clean" or straightforward as using an InReach. There's lots of guides/YT videos out there that break it down. Here's a starting point:

User Guide – APRS/SMS Gateway

smsgte.org

A bit unrelated but I found this googling around. Rugged smartphone/VHF/UHF Ham Radio. I don't know if the thing has APRS (don't think it does) but it could potentially have a pretty smartphone like txt interface.

 

[sdnative]

The biggest advantage of GPS/APRS in my opinion is that you can use it to text/send SMS, even with zero cell signal. That's a pretty powerful ability when you're in the middle of nowhere.

That assumes the APRS pathing can find an iGate. Depending on where you are that could be a challenge.

 

[kcjaz]

That assumes the APRS pathing can find an iGate. Depending on where you are that could be a challenge.

So, a Garmin InReach wouldn't use APRS at all. It would go directly to the Iridium satellites, no radio equipment involved. right?

 

[RobW0]

So, a Garmin InReach wouldn't use APRS at all. It would go directly to the Iridium satellites, no radio equipment involved. right?

Correct Garmin uses Sat and APRS uses HAM on 2M repeaters for the most part.

 

[sdnative]

So, a Garmin InReach wouldn't use APRS at all. It would go directly to the Iridium satellites, no radio equipment involved. right?

Correct. InReach is a satellite communication device and uses the Iridium satellites last I checked.

APRS uses VHF 144.390 MHz (there is also HF APRS). Could be radio to radio for close range field ops, or propagate via repeaters depending on the pathing setup. Repeaters that have an internet connection (and configured to upload APRS traffic) are the i-gates. I have been on trips where there were long distances where my beacon did not make it to an i-gate, so my waypoint did not show up on APRS mapping sites like aprs.fi (this would also mean a text wouldn't get out I believe).

Here is a trip we took to the Moab / White Rim. My APRS is transmitting every couple of minutes but you can see the large gaps in waypoints. I may be able to change the pathing to get better results, but in some areas the i-gates are fewer and further in between.

aprs.fi – live APRS map

aprs.fi

 

[RobW0]

Correct. InReach is a satellite communication device and uses the Iridium satellites last I checked.

APRS uses VHF 146.390 MHz (there is also HF APRS). Could be radio to radio for close range field ops, or propagate via repeaters depending on the pathing setup. Repeaters that have an internet connection (and configured to upload APRS traffic) are the i-gates. I have been on trips where there were long distances where my beacon did not make it to an i-gate, so my waypoint did not show up on APRS mapping sites like aprs.fi (this would also mean a text wouldn't get out I believe).

APRS in the US uses 144.390 on the 2M band.

 

[sdnative]

APRS in the US uses 144.390 on the 2M band.

oops that's what I meant to type. Thanks, fixed it.

 

[goldwater58]

The APRS texting thing does have its limitations, I just thought it was a unique, often overlooked feature of APRS/GPS equipped radios that should be mentioned.