H55f output shaft shorter than 4 spd output shaft ??

[GLTHFJ60]

One would assume that if your split case is the later variety ( 38mm idler ) that you would be able to swap the input gears but I really don't know. I thought the H55 and late H42 had the same spline count and length because you can swap in a H55 using a stock US split case ( 2.27, with either 34 or 38mm idler ) as long as you add the oiler cup.

As far as I know, the only differences in split cases were the 34 vs 38mm idler gears and a 2.27 vs 1.98 low reduction. The 38mm idler was implemented in 6/86 ( I believe ) and all the split cases mated to the H55 came with the 1.98 ratio. All the H42 split cases had the 2.27 ratios, but I'm not sure about the H41's.

 

[Beast II]

PICS

I visited my mechanic and took a bunch of pics to see what the problem was. Can anybody identify whether this is an H41 or H42 ? Just the front end of the transfer case has been replaced with a 5 speed setup.

http://picasaweb.google.com/ortoncommercial/BJ42TRANNYTRANSFERCASE?feat=directlink

Basically, the the H55F output shaft is shorter than the original 4 speed shaft (see pics for precise caliper measurements), so the bearing does not sit correctly in the recess within the transfer case. The two shafts are the same diameter and have the same tooth count as well. I'm wondering if a thinner transfer case 'shell' would line things up ?

H55F OUTPUT SHAFT = 123.18 MM
4 SPD OUTPUT SHAFT = 140.34 MM

 

[GLTHFJ60]

When you put the t-case input gear on the H55 output, the snout of the gear does not seat into the back of the case like it should. When I install the input gear on my split case the splines of the gear are almost touching the back of the case.

 

[lowenbrau]

See post #2 again. Your gear is a half mile from the front half of the case. It should be tight.

 

[amaurer]

I visited my mechanic and took a bunch of pics to see what the problem was. Can anybody identify whether this is an H41 or H42 ? Just the front end of the transfer case has been replaced with a 5 speed setup.

Picasa Web Albums - Matthew - BJ42 TRANNY &...

Basically, the the H55F output shaft is shorter than the original 4 speed shaft (see pics for precise caliper measurements), so the bearing does not sit correctly in the recess within the transfer case. The two shafts are the same diameter and have the same tooth count as well. I'm wondering if a thinner transfer case 'shell' would line things up ?

H55F OUTPUT SHAFT = 123.18 MM
4 SPD OUTPUT SHAFT = 140.34 MM

I agree with the others.

From the pictures it looks to me like the shaft length is appropriate for the case thickness you have.

I would imagine that the bearing doesn't go all the way in because there is a gear in the way that prevents it from sliding down the shaft far enough - right?

You need to slide that hole stack of gears down the shaft towards the front of the case, but you can't because the tcase input gear is already up against the end of the splines on the shaft - right?

So, as has been said, you need to cut some of the splines away from the inside of the input gear so it can slide forward closer to the front of the case and make room for the bearing.

Or you need to find a later tranny output shaft with longer splines.

Either way, there is a certain "eww factor"...

 

[Beast II]

As per this pic:

Picasa Web Albums - Matthew - BJ42 TRANNY &...

Compared to this schemetic:

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_U_1984_TOYOTA_LAND CRUISER_BJ42LV-MCJK_3305.html

I'm seeing what they call 'gear, 5th' on the left, then a spacer and then the bearing... but there is no other gear as in my pic. What is that gear to the right of the spacer in my pic and is it necessary (I heard it was for a PTO). Could another spacer (or one wider one) be machined and put in and then the bearing ?

 

[GLTHFJ60]

The gear you are referencing is the PTO gear. On some split cases offered in 6x cruisers there was no PTO gear and it was replaced with a larger spacer to make up for the width.

That's not your problem though. lowenbrau is right, the t-case input gear should be tight to the front half of the case. Find a later input gear or take some teeth out.

 

[Beast II]

I'm not sure what input gear I have now, but will this input gear work: Toyota Part # 33336-60010

 

[amaurer]

EDIT: This post found later to be incorrect... keep reading

Through the magic of photoshop, I fixed it!! [NOTE I'VE NEVER DONE THIS MYSELF- DON'T DO ANYTHING UNTIL SOMEONE CONFIRMS THIS IS RIGHT!!]

The gear you're showing is the 5th gear p/n, not the transfer input p/n. The correct gear p/n is a real mysery, however.

The listing for a 1982 4 speed is:
36212 GEAR, TRANSFER INPUT
36212‑60040 BJ4*, HJ47, FJ4*..4F 1 $394.56
36212‑60041 BJ4*, HJ47, FJ4*

The listing for a 1982 5 speed is:
36212 GEAR, TRANSFER INPUT
36212‑60041 BJ4*, HJ47, FJ4*

1986 4 speed:
36212 GEAR, TRANSFER INPUT
36212‑60080 FJ60 1 $431.89

And the listing for a 1986 5 speed is:
36212 GEAR, TRANSFER INPUT
36212‑60040 BJ60, FJ60 1 $394.56
36212‑60041 BJ60, FJ60 1 $340.60

So it looks like the 4 speed and the 5 speed is to 60040 and 60041 gears, regardless of year?! I can't find a "transition" year where the part number changes for the 5 speed?!?!?! 1986 says the 60040 or 60041 gear is for the 5 speed while 1982 says only the 60041 gear works.

 

[Beast II]

Wow Amaurer, could you please simplify that a little LOL

That is awesome, thank you.

Thank you to everyone for all of the great responses. I will take this to my mechanic tomorrow.

 

[lowenbrau]

I'm not sure what input gear I have now, but will this input gear work: Toyota Part # 33336-60010

No, that is actually the fifth gear and not what we are calling the input gear. Clearly you are not interested in doing any grinding so your options are...
Find *all* the gears from a 1984-85 case. Don't get later gears because they will have a bigger idler shaft. You need all the gears because they changed the helix somewhere along the way and even the same ratios don't mix and match.

If you give me a day or two I have a pile of split case parts that I should be able to use to explain myself. I probably even have what you need.

 

[lowenbrau]

Well done amaurer.

That's exactly what I think, may be the problem and solution. I've done the job by using a die grinder and a burr.

 

[RufusTheDufus]

So the placement of the bearing on the end of the shaft is just part of the problem. The fact that the output gear is in the wrong place on the output shaft will prevent the driven gear in the tcase from meshing properly.

 

[RufusTheDufus]

In the first image above you can see a shiny area on the output gear that looks like it should slip further into the oil seal. The width of the exposed shiny area might be a good indicator of how much needs to be ground from the inside of the gear.

 

[RufusTheDufus]

Grinding the splines isn't going to work. You can see in this image that there's a spacer ring preventing the gear from sliding further down the shaft. this image too

Look at the shiny area on that spacer. It looks like it's been polished by an oil seal. That polished area should move further into the tranny. At least that's my theory. I've been known to be full of it frequently.

 

[RufusTheDufus]

Beast - do you have any photos of the H55 output shaft without the gears slid onto it? It would be good to compare the depth of the splines. (distance from end of splines to transmission case)

 

[lowenbrau]

The later (something like 8-82) t-cases got a gear with a seal surface built onto the nose of it and that eliminated the need for the spacer that the seal rides on. Many guys have taken those old gears and put them into newer t-cases though, including me. In the case of Canadian spec trucks, the four speeds came with 2.3:1 gears and the five speeds came with 2:1 gears. We all found old four speed cases so we could swap the gears into our 83-84 wagons.

 

[RufusTheDufus]

I'm looking at the machined spacer between the input gear and the transmission. The one that slips into the oil seal. I can't tell if that spacer is new with the H55 or if it's from the 4sp. You can see it pretty clearly in this photo

 

[Beast II]

Beast - do you have any photos of the H55 output shaft without the gears slid onto it? It would be good to compare the depth of the splines. (distance from end of splines to transmission case)

That was the only one I didn't take I can try to get that pic tomorrow.

 

[Beast II]

No, that is actually the fifth gear and not what we are calling the input gear. Clearly you are not interested in doing any grinding so your options are...
Find *all* the gears from a 1984-85 case. Don't get later gears because they will have a bigger idler shaft. You need all the gears because they changed the helix somewhere along the way and even the same ratios don't mix and match.

If you give me a day or two I have a pile of split case parts that I should be able to use to explain myself. I probably even have what you need.

Sounds good. I'd love to buy the parts from you.