GX460 & GXOR B.S. thread (16 Viewers)

[K Dub]

I'm late to the party for Subaru Chat, but having owned 6 different Subarus with 6 different drivetrains there isn't really a "rule" for these and "symmetrical" means nothing but a marketing slogan. The worst I had in the snow was my SVX with the aforementioned 90/10 torque split. The best was my XT coupe, with a lockable center diff and 50/50 torque split and weight distribution. It would pivot like a tank and was unstoppable in the snow. Absolutely wild to drive through snow deeper than the hood level and have it blasting over my windshield. The trade-off was that it ate CV joints like candy.

I had some fun times in that car.

 

[BigSwede]

I've got lots of brush pin striping. Don't much care about that, the only enemy to me is rust... life is too short to stress about paint and sheet metal that doesn't serve any particular purpose other than breaking the wind.

These days I have a second DD, so the GX doesn't see much road salt.

 

[Arailt]

I pulled a F150 out of the ditch on a snowy road with my 2000 Forester L. It was a great little car, I still love the way even the N/A EJ25 sounds and how they build good upper-RPM power. It was also small enough to fit down ATV trails, although I did get it high-centered a couple of times. I ran Yokohama Geolandar AT/S tires on it, which were the only ATs available in the 205/70R15 size.
View attachment 3811995
It was my hiking/camping/bike/canoe hauling beater for a full 7 years after it had been retired from daily-driver duties. I sold it to my neighbor when I bought my GX and she made it into a hippie art car - and is still driving it.

Love it. I beat the heck out of ours. Young and dumb. It was a lease, so I especially didn't care. At one point, I jumped it and smashed in one of the fog lights. I popped the bumper out with a crowbar and straightened out the fog. I remember at the time, the Crocodile Dundee Subaru commercials were on every 2 mins, so I would recreate that in fields around my house every chance I got. I feel bad for whoever bought that car used. It was already leaking oil bad at like 30k haha.

 

[Hiluxforever]

I'm late to the party for Subaru Chat, but having owned 6 different Subarus with 6 different drivetrains there isn't really a "rule" for these and "symmetrical" means nothing but a marketing slogan. The worst I had in the snow was my SVX with the aforementioned 90/10 torque split. The best was my XT coupe, with a lockable center diff and 50/50 torque split and weight distribution. It would pivot like a tank and was unstoppable in the snow. Absolutely wild to drive through snow deeper than the hood level and have it blasting over my windshield. The trade-off was that it ate CV joints like candy.

I had some fun times in that car.

One of the foreman I worked with in the union had an XT6 back in the day and its still one of his favorite cars for those reasons.

 

[Acrad]

I had not looked at MTS pricing recently but a few still have the ECU for less than $200 on the 2010-2013 models. 2014-2019 models still in roughly $250-$300 range.

mods:body [GX Offroad]

lexusgxor.com

2010-2013

~$145/shipped

New parts search — IMPEX JAPAN

en.impex-jp.com

~$186.50/shipped

Toyota 859A1-60020 (859A160020) COMPUTER, DRIVING SUPPORT SWITCH CONTROL

Toyota 859A1-60020 (859A160020) COMPUTER, DRIVING SUPPORT SWITCH CONTROL. New & genuine Japanese car parts. Fast shipping. Low prices. Request a quote from Amayama Trading Co. online.

www.amayama.com

~$130/shipped

TOYOTA 859A160020

COMPUTER. DRIVING

www.parts-sale.jp

 

[Acrad]

The MT subies have a viscous center differential with a default 50/50 torque split. Since the differential is viscious, it allows for slip between the front and rear axles, in terms of difference in wheel speed. But, the torque split is fixed and does not change.

The AT and CVT subies use a different electronic system that is front biased (default 80/20, but it can get closer to 50/50 when needed). Snow traction in our CVT subie was just as good as my 5MT subie, if not better since it had a effective traction control system that my 5MT didn't, but the fun factor was completely absent with the CVT. The 5MT was a ton of fun to slide around in the snow.

Stock vs. stock...both on all-season/all-terrain tires....both subies will out perform a GX. If the GX has tires aired down, it will perform better due to bigger tires/ground clearance. For whatever reason, the ATRAC on my GX completely neuters snow performance, by all but stopping wheelspin, and I've gotten really close to getting the rig stuck in snow our subies would have plowed through, since the Subie systems (or lack thereof for the 5MT) allowed wheelspin. Aired down, it's not an issue in the GX, but I still made a ATRAC/VSC off button which allows for wheelspin and makes the rig a lot better in the snow, as I'm not going to air down for every minor snow section.

Interesting about the viscous setup. My 1996 Ford Explorer with the 5.0L V8 had all mechanical full time AWD viscous clutch system of some sort for the transfer case. No low range either.

A Borg Warner BW4404 to be exact. No electronics at all in this system and I think it would do like 35/65 in normal driving but could do 50/50 as well. Never a problem with system and my nephew still has the vehicle today. It did really well in the snow since it also had a factory Trac-Lok LSD.

• 1996–2001 Ford Explorer 5.0L V8 (AWD models)
• 1997–2001 Mercury Mountaineer 5.0L V8 (AWD models)

It was basically equipped with the reliable pieces of a Ford Explorer of that era....302, 4R70W AT, and that AWD TC... no power seats and manual HVAC

Don't know if the DANA 35 used in the front or the Ford 8.8 used in rear is strong or not but they never broke.

 

[Rednexus]

I had no idea the old 5.0 Explorers were set up that way. Learned something new today!

In other news we got a ton of snow and ice last week. My 4x4 diesel tractor - with ~40" rear tires and a rear locker - did terrible. I realized it's due to no siping/grooves on the R4 industrial tires. So, I ordered a tire groover so I can plow my driveway without getting stuck.

My wife's Highlander with the e-AWD did very, very well. Quite a bit better than the tractor. It has Michelin Defenders with tons of grooves and siping.

And my GX, now with 33" Wildpeak AT4Ws, did better than it used to on 32" AT3Ws. But, not really any better than the Highlander did.

So it seems like tires are everything.

 

[MeefZah]

I received my E-Bay (shipped by Amazon) red taillights today. See this post and next one (can only upload 5 pics per post).

Impressions:

Fast shipping. Well packed.

They seem substantially similar to the OEM ones. I am sure they are a knock off, but they seem decent. The markings are mostly the same; with the exception that the OEM has "Stanley" marked on the back with a part number and the aftermarket ones show the same part number but the area where "Stanley" would be is scratched out. All other markings are consistent.

They installed with no issues and snapped in with authority; the connectors were crisp and not spongy or imprecise. The plastic seemed of decent quality and wasn't brittle.

They function 100%. There is some minor degradation of the tail and brake light which I assume is caused by the red cover having an ever so slight dimming effect on the LEDs versus the clear cover on the OEMs.

All in all for $260 shipped I'm pleased. I see prices actually dropped a bit since I bought them and they are now around $245 for the pair, if purchased individually. If you buy them as a pair they are about $80 more. I will update this post if there are issues so the next guy searching for this can be aware. No issues; no update!

Pics are below.

OEM marking:

Aftermarket marking:

Aftermarket. Only obvious flaw I see is the bottom of the lens where it tucks under and isn't visible once installed is a little rough in this one spot.

OEM on left, aftermarket on right:

OEM on left, aftermarket on right. I did not tuck the wiring into the provided channels before this pic was taken, but I did before install:

OEM part numbers to pull search data:

PN: 81561-60841 / 2010-2013 Left Red
PN: 81551-60A01 / 2010-2013 Right Red
PN: 81561-60B11 / 2014-2021 Left without Sport Package Clear
PN: 81551-60B31 / 2014-2021 Right without Sport Package Clear
PN: 81560-WY030 / 2017-2021 Left with Sport Package Red
PN: 81550-WY040 / 2017-2021 Right with Sport Package Red

 

[MeefZah]

Aftermarket installed, off:

Taillights and turn signals on, aftermarket on left, OEM on right:

Brake lights on, aftermarket on left, OEM on right:

Taillights only, both aftermarket:

Brake lights only, both aftermarket:

 

[Hiluxforever]

I had no idea the old 5.0 Explorers were set up that way. Learned something new today!

In other news we got a ton of snow and ice last week. My 4x4 diesel tractor - with ~40" rear tires and a rear locker - did terrible. I realized it's due to no siping/grooves on the R4 industrial tires. So, I ordered a tire groover so I can plow my driveway without getting stuck.

My wife's Highlander with the e-AWD did very, very well. Quite a bit better than the tractor. It has Michelin Defenders with tons of grooves and siping.

And my GX, now with 33" Wildpeak AT4Ws, did better than it used to on 32" AT3Ws. But, not really any better than the Highlander did.

So it seems like tires are everything.

Yeah, shoes can make a huge performance difference since tires are always a compromise. The softer compound of winter tires can not be under-stated, as well.

 

[Hiluxforever]

So a Gopro Hero 11 was a big upgrade from my S22 and S23 Smartphones. Have some videos in my work-flow now.
Video

 

[r2m]

Car wash swirls? All it takes is a few trips down pretty much any trail in the North Woods with tag alders along a bog

And after a couple of years when you go to sell it, even after paying someone to buff it out the best they can, they will be looking at all the stripes on it along the sides instead of swirls on horizontal surfaces.

Was hard to capture pictures of it so I warned people in the description. Still didn't take long to sell the Taco and no one was looking at the horizontal paint status.

Car washes are not open below 10° above zero here so when they are open there is always a line. Lets see now... go to a car wash in the winter with recycled water that is basically salt brine and spray the undercarriage with salt. Hmmm that is a hard pass for me.

Used to do the Fluid Film spray myself but with the GX now pay someone else to do it professionally with NHOU undercoating oil.

FF, NHOU, Woolwax they all will tell you to NOT wash the undercarriage after getting a treatment. Until Spring otherwise it washes off the undercoating. Last time I see a car wash during the year is 2 days before treating with undercoating oil and drop the spare when I wash it. I will do a basic wash during the winter when it gets so bad I can't stand it. Minus the undercarriage.



I know that sound it is like fingers on a chalk board. But have gotten used to it

Looks like you took your mud flaps off too they were a stupid design being hard plastic and begged to be ripped off first time off road. I spend a lot of time on gravel roads I pretty much have to where I live and the tires threw stones on the rocker panels where your mud is. I ended up using black peel and stick non skid to help protect the rockers some. And cover the stone chips LOL, it worked pretty well.

I consider trail pinstriping as badges of honor, but draw the line at buckling door panels, crunching fenders, etc.
You could even vinyl wrap over pinstriping, but not dents.

 

[r2m]

I'm late to the party for Subaru Chat, but having owned 6 different Subarus with 6 different drivetrains there isn't really a "rule" for these and "symmetrical" means nothing but a marketing slogan. The worst I had in the snow was my SVX with the aforementioned 90/10 torque split. The best was my XT coupe, with a lockable center diff and 50/50 torque split and weight distribution. It would pivot like a tank and was unstoppable in the snow. Absolutely wild to drive through snow deeper than the hood level and have it blasting over my windshield. The trade-off was that it ate CV joints like candy.
I had some fun times in that car.

Okay, so I'm late to the party also...
First year of marriage in the mid 1980's we bought a shinny new Subaru wagon right off the show room floor. It had everything AND a low range!
Love it! Till.... we rolled it. Coming back home late one night, a young lady for whatever reason looked like she swerved left and over corrected serving right and hit us hard on the left front fender. That pushed us into a curb on our right side, hence causing us to do a complete roll over, landing again on our wheels.
The vehicle held up amazingly! Yeah, every body panel was buckled, but all the doors opened and if it wasn't for being hit in the left front wheel, we probably could have still driven it home. After that I was pretty sold on the safety of Subaru's, unfortunately we never had many chances to to take it on any easy trails. We had had it only about 6 months at the time.

 

[r2m]

I had not looked at MTS pricing recently but a few still have the ECU for less than $200 on the 2010-2013 models. 2014-2019 models still in roughly $250-$300 range.

mods:body [GX Offroad]

lexusgxor.com

2010-2013

~$145/shipped

New parts search — IMPEX JAPAN

en.impex-jp.com

~$186.50/shipped

Toyota 859A1-60020 (859A160020) COMPUTER, DRIVING SUPPORT SWITCH CONTROL

Toyota 859A1-60020 (859A160020) COMPUTER, DRIVING SUPPORT SWITCH CONTROL. New & genuine Japanese car parts. Fast shipping. Low prices. Request a quote from Amayama Trading Co. online.

www.amayama.com

~$130/shipped

TOYOTA 859A160020

COMPUTER. DRIVING

www.parts-sale.jp

I think I'd need to avoid using "Rock" if I have my front and rear diff's locked, otherwise the MTS would be fighting the locked diff's and maybe break something.

 

[Banandalorian]

Front and rear lockers replace or supersede a lot of the use cases for MTS. I would think that anywhere you'd want to use Mogul or Rock mode you would instead just lock the diffs. Mud/Sand and Loose Rock would still be useful since Mud/Sand does some tricks to control overall wheel speed so you aren't just digging and Loose Rock is like the all-purpose mode you can leave active on trails when you want more than normal ATRAC but don't need the lockers.

 

[r2m]

Front and rear lockers replace or supersede a lot of the use cases for MTS. I would think that anywhere you'd want to use Mogul or Rock mode you would instead just lock the diffs. Mud/Sand and Loose Rock would still be useful since Mud/Sand does some tricks to control overall wheel speed so you aren't just digging and Loose Rock is like the all-purpose mode you can leave active on trails when you want more than normal ATRAC but don't need the lockers.

Yeah, this is where I've always relied on locking up the front and rear in all my previous vehicles, and not used to all these newfangled electronic wizardry in conjunction with my old school locker mentality.

 

[BobTheBrogrammer]

I think I'd need to avoid using "Rock" if I have my front and rear diff's locked, otherwise the MTS would be fighting the locked diff's and maybe break something.

I may be wrong on this but I'm fairly certain that atrac/MTS/crawl control is looking for differences in wheel-spin between wheels of the same axle. So if your axle is locked, there should be no difference in wheel-spin and therefor no engagement of of the traction control system.

 

[Banandalorian]

I may be wrong on this but I'm fairly certain that atrac/MTS/crawl control is looking for differences in wheel-spin between wheels of the same axle. So if your axle is locked, there should be no difference in wheel-spin and therefor no engagement of of the traction control system.

I've been contemplating this for the last day and half instead of being productive at work.

I think some of the MTS modes and Crawl Control are looking at overall wheel speed or some similar factors on top of side to side wheel speed. MTS Mud/Sand has a big change to throttle input to make the throttle much slower and if you use it in 4H feels like it's trying to govern speed to like 25-30 mph. It is trying to keep all 4 wheels churning forward but not spinning so fast that you just dig. If you have lockers you may not trigger the side to side traction control but there are situations where you may still want the lower wheel speed or slower throttle input.
Loose Rock seems to work like normal ATRAC but reacts faster.
I haven't messed with Mogul all that much but my assumption is that it looks to clamp down hard on 1 lifted wheel from each axle. I think this still works like normal ATRAC but set to react very aggressively. Loose Rock and Mogul probably don't do anything if you are triple locked.
Rock mode seems like it tries to limit any wheel from spinning more than like 1/2 a turn regardless of throttle input. What I can't figure out is whether that means that rock mode would fight with lockers in a situation where you are triple locked and still spinning wheels or if rock mode is trying to simulate triple lockers in situations where you have both wheels from 1 axle lifted so lockers would cancel it out.

I feel like Crawl Control is kind of its own thing and is as much about the minute, computer controlled throttle inputs as any side to side traction control.

 

[Acrad]

This is a good comparison too between use of A-TRAC and MTS on 4R forum that talks about MTS using more throttle control involvement.

https://www.toyota-4runner.org/3750609-post1.html

 

[Hiluxforever]

What did y'all use for quick couplers on your air kits? I have never had problems with them before bu the ones on my arb compressor on the air chuck end are garbage. Probably going to upgrade those this week.